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ldcommando
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(05-11-2017, 02:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by chandoog

Are there any Proto-xenomoprh vs Neomorph scenes in the movie ?

Nope
chandoog
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(05-11-2017, 02:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by ldcommando

Nope

That's a missed opportunity. Would have been great to highlight how more ferocious and deadly the xenomorphs are by having it rip apart a neomorph or two.
Bobby Roberts
Lore Expert
(05-11-2017, 03:03 PM)
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The deacon on the wall in Prometheus is more or less just an easter egg based on original production art for the neomorph (which was supposed to appear in Prometheus but got shitcanned during the rewrites)

To put it in gaming terms, it's a cut character who's asset is being reused as art direction.

I would not be surprised if Scott forgot it was even in the movie.

Could the next film, or the film after that, retcon what we saw in this one? Sure. Covenant doesn't explicitly close any doors on those theories in its text, but that's because it's not even thinking about anything other than its own story, really.

But there is nothing in Covenant that suggests in any way, anywhere, a read that says "oh, David just stumbled onto a pre-existing race of penisbeasts and simply came up with his own variation." Nothing in this movie even hints in that direction. You as a viewer have to want to go there as a reaction to what is being blatantly shown to be THE ORIGIN of the egg/facehugger/chest burster lifecycle.

That it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it's wrong. Not making a lot of sense is how Ridley makes these things. That's how Prometheus "works"

There is no queen. The xenomorphs are not an engineer creation, or a life form created/independently evolved that either the engineers or David studied and patterned their creations after.

The mad scientist robot on a dead planet made them. You see the very first two xenos "born".

That's Covenant.
Experien
Member
(05-11-2017, 03:05 PM)

Originally Posted by EGM1966

Read in interview lead designer noted they decided to ditch the more obvious biomechanical trappings and go with more of a real world look (in that it's a living creature with muscles and veins).

Disappointing really as Scott was so keen on the biomechaical look for Alien and noted only Gieger's art looked truly alien and thus that was crucial to the look.

TBH the lower legs aside (limitation of the time of course) the original suit Geiger put together still looks best when well shot (such as emerging from the pipes in Narcissus).

In Alien Isolation where they blended original Geiger with better lower limbs for convincing movement the result was fantastic.

Here it loses the weird not flesh/creature vibe the biomechanical look delivered and just looks like a moderately funky human variant. Only the classic long dome head makes it look odd at all now.

But then with Prometheus and Covenant Scott has gone much further than anyone else in franchise in making the alien merely an exotic creature and lost the true sense of alien essence he himself first captured.

Given I decided to skip film I figured I'd most here and see if my worst fears were the case and oh boy does it sound like they were. Reading reviews/comments it's obviously a damn odd amalgam of Prometheus and Alien 3 and as disjointed as that implies.

The fact they'd skip chance to show Davids betrayal of Shaw (which could and should have been a very powerful scene and a key moment for David) says it all for me. Scott's skipping about chasing various themes and as dead that take his fancy, and while some good elements are emerging the whole is very messy.

I'll probably skip completely in cinema and just watch later for curio value at home.

Ridley Scott goes against anything that was in the first Alien movie. Xeno's take minutes to grow into full-sized adults. No feeding required. Ingestation from facehuggers takes minutes and in one case, it literally took SECONDS for a non-fully attached facehugger to implant an egg. (I think this last one came from a tacked-on, new, re-write ending to add more Xenomorph to the "Alien" movie.

As for David and Shaw, there isn't much there to show as I outline below. Out of character action that results in Shaw never waking up. Cheap, cop out writing that I am not surprised after Prometheus and the rest of this movie.




Originally Posted by papercan55

Ridley scott has said the next film is set between prometheus and covenant so i guess you will see the betrayal then, we will also discover exactly what happened to them both during the ten years.
It might go into more detail how david found the formula for creating the xenomorphs seen in covenant, and if he had any help or guidance from engineers after landing.

We already know what happened to them, that was the prologue. He was a head and Shaw on the ship to the Engineer's home planet. For some stupid reason against anything a smart person would do, gave David a body, he sealed her in a sleep chamber and then she dies from an alien.

Covenant shows that he took the bioweapon DNA and spliced it with Shaw, removed the embryo and used that to make new eggs which are the xenos we have.

There is no way she would give him a body. Just another dumb thing to happen in the dumb series that is (Movies named after their ships)
Alienfan
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(05-11-2017, 03:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Experien

Ridley Scott goes against anything that was in the first Alien movie. Xeno's take minutes to grow into full-sized adults. No feeding required. Ingestation from facehuggers takes minutes and in one case, it literally took SECONDS for a non-fully attached facehugger to implant an egg. (I think this last one came from a tacked-on, new, re-write ending to add more Xenomorph to the "Alien" movie.

As for David and Shaw, there isn't much there to show as I outline below. Out of character action that results in Shaw never waking up. Cheap, cop out writing that I am not surprised after Prometheus and the rest of this movie.

My interpretation was that David had accelerated the Aliens life cycle, engineered the perfect organism. They're not the same alien as the alien in the first film, they're an upgraded version. The engineers made the Alien (and possibly us + whatever those human looking things were on the planet), David perfected it.

And as for why Shaw would bring back David, she didn't have much of a choice. Drift off into the vastness of space (there was no way she could control that ship on her own) or take a chance with David.
Last edited by Alienfan; 05-11-2017 at 03:18 PM.
Bobby Roberts
Lore Expert
(05-11-2017, 03:13 PM)
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To put it in terms from another prequel series (and it's gonna keep getting used as a comparison as discussion continues)

Just because there are variations on droids (and specifically, protocol droids) to be seen in the background of the movies doesn't negate the fact that Anakin built Threepio.

Just because something deacon-y was added to a wall in post-production on Prometheus doesn't mean David didn't create the xenomorph.

Speaking to EGM's point above regarding the Alien's lack of mechanoid design: one of the bigger missed opportunities for scares is that Ridley never once has it blend in with its surroundings. You only see it think/consider maybe twice.

Most of the time, it just reacts like an angry animal. It is very much like the one in Alien 3.
Last edited by Bobby Roberts; 05-11-2017 at 03:19 PM.
Ferr986
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(05-11-2017, 03:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by EGM1966

Read in interview lead designer noted they decided to ditch the more obvious biomechanical trappings and go with more of a real world look (in that it's a living creature with muscles and veins).

Disappointing really as Scott was so keen on the biomechaical look for Alien and noted only Gieger's art looked truly alien and thus that was crucial to the look.

TBH the lower legs aside (limitation of the time of course) the original suit Geiger put together still looks best when well shot (such as emerging from the pipes in Narcissus).

In Alien Isolation where they blended original Geiger with better lower limbs for convincing movement the result was fantastic.

Here it loses the weird not flesh/creature vibe the biomechanical look delivered and just looks like a moderately funky human variant. Only the classic long dome head makes it look odd at all now.

woow fuuck that. Seriously, it was the best part of the alien design, the "wtf does this comes from" nature of the beast. As you say now it looks more like a regular beast with the head being the only weird part. What an awful decision.
Days like these...
Poonani should have a ph balance of 0
(05-11-2017, 03:27 PM)

Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

The deacon on the wall in Prometheus is more or less just an easter egg based on original production art for the neomorph (which was supposed to appear in Prometheus but got shitcanned during the rewrites)

To put it in gaming terms, it's a cut character who's asset is being reused as art direction.

I would not be surprised if Scott forgot it was even in the movie.

Could the next film, or the film after that, retcon what we saw in this one? Sure. Covenant doesn't explicitly close any doors on those theories in its text, but that's because it's not even thinking about anything other than its own story, really.

But there is nothing in Covenant that suggests in any way, anywhere, a read that says "oh, David just stumbled onto a pre-existing race of penisbeasts and simply came up with his own variation." Nothing in this movie even hints in that direction. You as a viewer have to want to go there as a reaction to what is being blatantly shown to be THE ORIGIN of the egg/facehugger/chest burster lifecycle.

That it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it's wrong. Not making a lot of sense is how Ridley makes these things. That's how Prometheus "works"

There is no queen. The xenomorphs are not an engineer creation, or a life form created/independently evolved that either the engineers or David studied and patterned their creations after.

The mad scientist robot on a dead planet made them. You see the very first two xenos "born".

That's Covenant.

So basically disregard thing because reasons? Engineers have had this Magical God Goop™ for millennia and did fuck all with it but along comes this robot and in 10 short years we have xenos? Ridley Scott, go home you're drunk!
Ferr986
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(05-11-2017, 03:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Days like these...

So basically disregard thing because reasons? Engineers have had this Magical God Goop™ for millennia and did fuck all with it but along comes this robot and in 10 short years we have xenos? Ridley Scott, go home you're drunk!

I mean, just going with Prometheus opening is pretty clear the Engineers made life (and humans) using the goo and themselves.
EGM1966
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(05-11-2017, 03:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

To put it in terms from another prequel series (and it's gonna keep getting used as a comparison as discussion continues)

Just because there are variations on droids (and specifically, protocol droids) to be seen in the background of the movies doesn't negate the fact that Anakin built Threepio.

Just because something deacon-y was added to a wall in post-production on Prometheus doesn't mean David didn't create the xenomorph.

Speaking to EGM's point above regarding the Alien's lack of mechanoid design: one of the bigger missed opportunities for scares is that Ridley never once has it blend in with its surroundings. You only see it think/consider maybe twice.

Most of the time, it just reacts like an angry animal. It is very much like the one in Alien 3.

Another point on the mural in Prometheus: IIRC it contains a number of deliberate homages to previous Geiger concept designs for Alien (for example bottom right looking at is there's abstract of his early design for face hugger jumping out onto someone's face).

Thus I think the mural really is a red herring now as you say and should be regarded as a very elaborate Easter Egg referencing the creative process of the first Alien film.

Covenant thematically is clearly pushing idea David takes Engineer capabilities and designs the "classic" xenomorph all by himself.

Where do you publish your review BTW? Would be curious to read it.
linkman26
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(05-11-2017, 03:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Days like these...

So basically disregard thing because reasons? Engineers have had this Magical God Goop™ for millennia and did fuck all with it but along comes this robot and in 10 short years we have xenos? Ridley Scott, go home you're drunk!

Honestly, I feel that with the mixed reaction to Prometheus and huge interest in Blomkamp's Alien 5 (which doesn't exist anymore), Ridley realized he should should probably change the story to satisfy those who wanted to see the Xenomorph and gave us covenant rather than Prometheus 2.
Days like these...
Poonani should have a ph balance of 0
(05-11-2017, 03:39 PM)

Originally Posted by linkman26

Honestly, I feel that with the mixed reaction to Prometheus and huge interest in Blomkamp's Alien 5 (which doesn't exist anymore), Ridley realized he should should probably change the story to satisfy those who wanted to see the Xenomorph and gave us covenant rather than Prometheus 2.

Yeah, yew right, maybe, probably, I guess. Who knows.
wesleyshark
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(05-11-2017, 03:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by chandoog

Are there any Proto-xenomoprh vs Neomorph scenes in the movie ?

No the neos get killed off before the xenomorph is born
Jason's Ultimatum
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(05-11-2017, 03:46 PM)
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Scott should've just made a sequel to Aliens. Fuck all this prequel shit.
wesleyshark
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(05-11-2017, 03:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jason's Ultimatum

Scott should've just made a sequel to Aliens. Fuck all this prequel shit.

Lol if you think he might not retcon Aliens at this point
Bobby Roberts
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(05-11-2017, 03:48 PM)
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He's 3/4ths of the way there.
Fj0823
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(05-11-2017, 03:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

He's 3/4ths of the way there.

Bobby, seems to me that you enjoyed the film quite a bit.

Is it a good place for an Alien first timer like some of my friends?
Bobby Roberts
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(05-11-2017, 04:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fj0823

Bobby, seems to me that you enjoyed the film quite a bit.

Is it a good place for an Alien first timer like some of my friends?

I don't know that I'd say I enjoyed it "quite a bit." I mean, I think Alien 3 is okay, I don't think it's a bad movie, but I recognize that it's fundamentally broken, too, and has a lot of problems that no "Assembly Cut" could fix (and it doesn't)

So Covenant hurdling that bar isn't much of a superlative, really. It works more than it doesn't.

However, yeah, I think a lot of people's hangups with this film and its storytelling are going to come from a familiarity with the series that goes any deeper than a casual watch or two. If you don't have that familiarity, the stuff that happens in this film might likely just feel a little more "natural" in terms of progression, I guess.

I mean, there are people here for whom Resurrection was their first Alien movie, and they were able to hang just fine. This is a much better movie than that is.

Originally Posted by EGM1966

Where do you publish your review BTW? Would be curious to read it.

I write for the Portland Mercury. But since it's an actual print publication, my review won't go live until next Wednesday at the earliest (that's when the paper streets every week)
EGM1966
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(05-11-2017, 05:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

I don't know that I'd say I enjoyed it "quite a bit." I mean, I think Alien 3 is okay, I don't think it's a bad movie, but I recognize that it's fundamentally broken, too, and has a lot of problems that no "Assembly Cut" could fix (and it doesn't)

So Covenant hurdling that bar isn't much of a superlative, really. It works more than it doesn't.

However, yeah, I think a lot of people's hangups with this film and its storytelling are going to come from a familiarity with the series that goes any deeper than a casual watch or two. If you don't have that familiarity, the stuff that happens in this film might likely just feel a little more "natural" in terms of progression, I guess.

I mean, there are people here for whom Resurrection was their first Alien movie, and they were able to hang just fine. This is a much better movie than that is.



I write for the Portland Mercury. But since it's an actual print publication, my review won't go live until next Wednesday at the earliest (that's when the paper streets every week)

Cool I'll look out for it later.
Bobby Roberts
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(05-11-2017, 05:56 PM)
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Thanks man!
Jinroh
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(05-11-2017, 06:17 PM)
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After getting a comment notification I watched the trailer again, and yeah, it's not just the "4 meters above you" scene that's missing. Everything featured in that trailer is not in the movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB34pme5RkE
Bobby Roberts
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(05-11-2017, 07:47 PM)
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Looking at those "prologues" as they're calling them, I'm really starting to wonder if they're not all just deleted scenes, really.

Because I think they might be.
Toa TAK
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(05-11-2017, 08:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

Looking at those "prologues" as they're calling them, I'm really starting to wonder if they're not all just deleted scenes, really.

Because I think they might be.

I thought Last Supper was directed by his son, since it was just a one-off and all.
Metalingus5150
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(05-11-2017, 08:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

Looking at those "prologues" as they're calling them, I'm really starting to wonder if they're not all just deleted scenes, really.

Because I think they might be.

In one of the interviews, I could have sworn I heard these prologues were all planned out and filmed simultaneously with the film.
ronaldthump
Member
(05-11-2017, 10:09 PM)
the 2 prologue bits - only 1 mattered which is the shaw + david one; I'm guessing it was done to

a) show how david was repaired
b) show how they got to the planet
c) have the narrator be david to suggest (in retrospect) shaw's dead
d) show how she died trusting davie


I gotta say, I like naomi's shaw and I think its a shame she was written out like this. Such a brave survivor getting killed offscreen and with such little regard for the movie. Imagine if they did that with Ripley - but nope, they brought weaver back for 3 more movies.
Jinroh
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(05-11-2017, 10:12 PM)
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I'm not sure Daniels talking to mother randomly and her playing cards with 2 or 3 other people is set before the events of the movie.

I'm starting to think that it might take place after they come back from the planet, and before the Xenomorph bursts out of the guy in the medbay. And for some reason Ridley might have wanted to rush things up and shorted the last part of the movie.

Remember he did the same with the engineer at the end of Prometheus. This movie really seems to be a mess, it reminds me of Rogue One. The ending might have been heavily edited late in production.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
(05-11-2017, 10:21 PM)
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The alien vision scenes felt so cheap and tacky. It felt 90s cheesy like resurrection. The entire final sequence was a rushed, tension-free cliched mess.
ronaldthump
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(05-11-2017, 10:29 PM)

Originally Posted by Ollie Pooch

The alien vision scenes felt so cheap and tacky. It felt 90s cheesy like resurrection. The entire final sequence was a rushed, tension-free cliched mess.

Yeah. I didn't think they needed the alien vision shots. It was the POV shots of corridors? Which, to be honest, we don't have a sense of the layout of covenant = what's the point anyhow. There's no sense of reference.

There's actually a leaping shot of the alien in the trailers cut from the film. That suggest it's hunting someone - they needed more jeopardy in the final act but Tennessee and Daniels both were never really ever near the Alien til the airlock and even then, it quickly got trapped in the drivers booth for a bit.

agreed it was tension-free. I was so bored. I mean, Air Lock again?! Is that the best they can do? Again?!! Someone needs to do a mega cut of aliens being blown out to space
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
(05-11-2017, 10:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by ronaldthump

Yeah. I didn't think they needed the alien vision shots. It was the POV shots of corridors? Which, to be honest, we don't have a sense of the layout of covenant = what's the point anyhow. There's no sense of reference.

There's actually a leaping shot of the alien in the trailers cut from the film. That suggest it's hunting someone - they needed more jeopardy in the final act but Tennessee and Daniels both were never really ever near the Alien til the airlock and even then, it quickly got trapped in the drivers booth for a bit.

agreed it was tension-free. I was so bored. I mean, Air Lock again?! Is that the best they can do? Again?!! Someone needs to do a mega cut of aliens being blown out to space

That and the "let's blow this fucker into space!". I cringed, and the movie had built up some goodwill by that point. Compare that to Aliens with the build up to the loader fight (which this seemed to hint at) and it's night and day. Seeing a cgi alien wiggle its butt down a vent hole on CCTV wasn't tense - it all felt so basic for a movie on such a supposed grand scale.

And yeah, it felt like a LOT was cut from this movie. It showed pacing wise IMO.
ronaldthump
Member
(05-11-2017, 10:42 PM)

Originally Posted by Ollie Pooch

That and the "let's blow this fucker into space!". I cringed, and the movie had built up some goodwill by that point. Compare that to Aliens with the build up to the loader fight (which this seemed to hint at) and it's night and day. Seeing a cgi alien wiggle its butt down a vent hole on CCTV wasn't tense - it all felt so basic for a movie on such a supposed grand scale.

And yeah, it felt like a LOT was cut from this movie. It showed pacing wise IMO.

and the loader fight was good because it wasn't a fully covered outfit and ripley had to actually fight for her life. There was also a heft and reality to the the loader and it was a fight to the finish to get the queen out of the airlock. That was done well. This? Not exciting at all - to be honest, I was also not invested in Daniels as a character to I didn't really care if she lived or died.

Not even sure how Daniels wasn't pulled out too space. Mag grav shoes? lol
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
(05-11-2017, 10:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by ronaldthump

and the loader fight was good because it wasn't a fully covered outfit and ripley had to actually fight for her life. There was also a heft and reality to the the loader and it was a fight to the finish to get the queen out of the airlock. That was done well. This? Not exciting at all - to be honest, I was also not invested in Daniels as a character to I didn't really care if she lived or died.

Not even sure how Daniels wasn't pulled out too space. Mag grav shoes? lol

Yeah, it's kind of jarring how much these filmmakers have access to with CGI etc but if the core idea isn't strong it just all feels weightless and pointless. Practical effects win every time with stuff like that.

I wondered that too. Such a stupid convenient ending for the alien. Gotta say I enjoyed the final scene with David, though.
Cosmonaut X
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(05-11-2017, 10:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

Looking at those "prologues" as they're calling them, I'm really starting to wonder if they're not all just deleted scenes, really.

Because I think they might be.

From what I've read so far and seen of the trailers/prologues etc. it really does seem as though that's exactly what they are. They don't feel like promotional material that marketing has put together separately from the main production, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone at Fox decided it was worth the (relatively small?) extra investment in properly editing and finishing VFX etc. on the offcuts and using what are essentially chunks of the movie proper as teasers and promo.

Take the offal, dress it up to sell the film upfront, then include it in a later super-duper-deluxe-Covenant-special-hologram-penisbeast-edition to flog to the superfans.

EDIT:

Mind you... having said all that, didn't the promotion for Prometheus include stuff like the TED talk by Weyland and other bits and bobs that were never in the film? Maybe it's just the promotional structure for these and the extra footage and work is all factored in?
Last edited by Cosmonaut X; 05-11-2017 at 11:02 PM.
CloudWolf
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(05-11-2017, 10:59 PM)
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Is Ridley Scott becoming the new George Lucas?
Hystzen
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(05-11-2017, 11:33 PM)
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How could Ridley Scott think "you know what this birth of Xenomorph needs have its tiny arms raise up"

Holy fuck did anyone think that not look laughable
StrongBelwas
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(05-11-2017, 11:35 PM)
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Just saw this and I kind of liked it but also didn't..

The film looked great. Even though the character was kind of ridiculous I quite liked Billy Crudups character. Uncertain and unsure of himself desperately seeking affirmation. Made for an interesting or at least different sort of character. The bit with the first neomorph was great.

But I just can't understand the need for showing us the "creation". Mystery is good. Xenomorphs are cool when we know nothing about them. The twist with David and Walter was so obvious. And the cgi alien was pretty naff.

Some good stuff in the movie hidden amongst a more not so good stuff.
Bobby Roberts
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(05-11-2017, 11:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by CloudWolf

Is Ridley Scott becoming the new George Lucas?

Becoming?
SCULLIBUNDO
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(05-11-2017, 11:40 PM)
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Ridley Scott is, and has always been a much better director than George Lucas.
ronaldthump
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(05-12-2017, 12:34 AM)

Originally Posted by Hystzen

How could Ridley Scott think "you know what this birth of Xenomorph needs have its tiny arms raise up"

Holy fuck did anyone think that not look laughable

I sat there and could not believe that made the cut.

Originally Posted by SCULLIBUNDO

Ridley Scott is, and has always been a much better director than George Lucas.

Yeah this.
Kito
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(05-12-2017, 04:45 AM)
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Didn't like this sequel. No answers again, just more questions. Zero lore.

David cannot be the first creator of aliens when there was a mural with aliens and facehuggers in Prometheus. Also, David 'learned of [the engineer's] ways' (Covenant prologue), so he is acting on unknown information. David is just under the delusion of being a creator.
Linkura
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(05-12-2017, 04:51 AM)
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I had no hope for this film, but this thread is just crazy. It's like they literally put the worst parts of Prometheus that no one ever wanted to see again and put it in there as a "fuck you, got your money again!" to anyone who paid to see this movie. Good lord.
Fj0823
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(05-12-2017, 04:59 AM)
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As a standalone movie, it was great

As a sequel to Prometheus it was good

As a prequel to Alien it fails.

So many decisions that contradict what Alien established.

And this isn't some Star Wars prequel "Well in my mind I always thought that..." nitpick there's some stuff that simply doesn't work the way they did in Alien or Aliens

Getting facehugged 30 seconds is enough to implant the egg...wow, those surgeons in Aliens that removed 2 live facehuggers were pretty fucking fast then!!

Also David creating the Aliens I can buy, but there was NOTHING here that connects to Alien, the movie made sure to complicate everything by having David kill all the engineers.

Unless of course David is in the fucking suit, but now that too won't happen since he left in the covenant.

This movie could've just make it so David cracked the code for Alien embryos tested it and THEN tried to go against the engineers.

Oh and don't get me started on the whole "Yep, I will absolutely go face first inside this open eth Mr Pyscho Androi who I just saw having a giant throbbing Neomorph boner!"

Also the chestburster going all "YMCA!" was hilarious instead of creepy, the creature beimy fully formed at birth was stupid.

Now is the film bad? No, not really.

It was intense, satisfying, violent and even deep in some parts.

They kept the Alien at the minimum here too and opted to make the film a villain origin story for David. And it just works pretty well at that.

Shaw's end was disturbing, but at least it was slightly implied that she died peacefully in her sleep without noticing the horrible shit she was becoming.

Daniels was a cool character and one of the few sane members of the ship, together with the ultra hot doctor girl.

Also, killing hot doctor girl at the tail end took away MANY points for this film just for that alone.

7/10.

6/10 if you go wanting this to be the Alien prequel of your dreams

It's better than 3,Resurrection, AvP and AvP2.

I would definitely rewatch this over any of those pieces of shit.
Last edited by Fj0823; 05-12-2017 at 05:03 AM.
TheXbox
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(05-12-2017, 05:03 AM)
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I'm guessing the film doesn't address the hive creation or the alien queen from Aliens. Is it still possible to reconcile Scott's alien with Cameron's? Does anyone think Scott is interested in dealing with that stuff?
Fj0823
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(05-12-2017, 05:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheXbox

I'm guessing the film doesn't address the hive creation or the alien queen from Aliens. Is it still possible to reconcile Scott's alien with Cameron's?

At this point?

Absolutely. This Alien was a prototype, David only went as far as creating the egg, he wanted to see what happened later.

Getting the Queen there is still possible
Bobby Roberts
Lore Expert
(05-12-2017, 05:10 AM)
Bobby Roberts's Avatar
Considering the fanbase is already hard at work trying to figure out a way to wedge in Cameron's Queen, let me add my own little bit of water to be carried:

Considering these are David's first attempts at the xenomorph (I think fans are already calling them "protomorphs" or something like that?) there's still room for improvement, and even in the main series, there were variations in how fast it took for a xenomorph to gestate, or how fast it took for a facehugger to fall off after impregnating a host.

So yeah, in the next movie, there are possibilities for variations on the theme he essentially just composed in front of us.

Will that variation allow for a version of the animal that grows eggs inside itself and shits them out? Maybe.

But as of right now, looking at what he's doing with his story, and knowing he's going to tie it DIRECTLY into Alien - I think it's more likely he's just going to say "fuck it" and write Aliens out of canon. He's more than halfway there already.

Originally Posted by Kito

Didn't like this sequel. No answers again, just more questions. Zero lore.

It's not really lore if it's the text of the movie you're watching. It's not lore at that point. It's just plain ol story.

Besides which, it's hard to reconcile what you probably mean by lore with what happens in this movie, where you see precisely how the xenomorph was first invented. I don't know how you can watch that happening and go "Oh, there's no 'lore' here."

It's literally the answer to one of the single biggest (and shoulda probably been unanswered) questions in the series since 1979.

That's like watching Revenge of the Sith and saying "Yeah, we saw how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader but where was the lore, huh?"
Last edited by Bobby Roberts; 05-12-2017 at 05:13 AM.
Vectorman
Junior Member
(05-12-2017, 05:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

But as of right now, looking at what he's doing with his story, and knowing he's going to tie it DIRECTLY into Alien - I think it's more likely he's just going to say "fuck it" and write Aliens out of canon. He's more than halfway there already.

That would definitely get some negative pushback from fans especially with how much people still talk about that second film.
Bobby Roberts
Lore Expert
(05-12-2017, 05:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Vectorman

That would definitely get some negative pushback from fans especially with how much people still talk about that second film.

Yeah, it's going to be the big fight about this film, definitely.
TheXbox
Member
(05-12-2017, 05:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

Considering the fanbase is already hard at work trying to figure out a way to wedge in Cameron's Queen, let me add my own little bit of water to be carried:

Considering these are David's first attempts at the xenomorph (I think fans are already calling them "protomorphs" or something like that?) there's still room for improvement, and even in the main series, there were variations in how fast it took for a xenomorph to gestate, or how fast it took for a facehugger to fall off after impregnating a host.

So yeah, in the next movie, there are possibilities for variations on the theme he essentially just composed in front of us.

Will that variation allow for a version of the animal that grows eggs inside itself and shits them out? Maybe.

But as of right now, looking at what he's doing with his story, and knowing he's going to tie it DIRECTLY into Alien - I think it's more likely he's just going to say "fuck it" and write Aliens out of canon. He's more than halfway there already.

That's kinda where I was going. Is Scott rewatching Aliens and taking notes for this origin story? Does he care about Cameron's contributions to the mythology, or Fincher's? I think not. Fox probably does though, right? At least with Aliens.
Bobby Roberts
Lore Expert
(05-12-2017, 05:18 AM)
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Fox might, but they've given Scott back the keys to this series, and I don't think they're keen on getting in his way, either.

They probably don't care. if Scott breaks the Canon (and Fox was already pursuing an option that woulda done that with Blomkamp) then it simply means they can start (once Ridley leaves) making Alien movies however the fuck they want. They don't have to worry about linear timelines or continuity or any of that shit.

Which is working pretty well for them over in X-Men land, right?

And I'd agree that he probably doesn't care that much about Cameron's contributions, but after seeing Covenant, I really do think he's seen and apparently enjoyed some of Alien 3, because he riffed off a lot of it.
Sub Boss
Member
(05-12-2017, 05:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by Chaotic-Strike

So how are they handling the Queen issue?

David is the QUEEN!!!
Bobby Roberts
Lore Expert
(05-12-2017, 05:21 AM)
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Nah, David is the Jockey.

Daniels is the Queen.

(this is going to be a serious theory in just over a week)

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