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FlowersisBritish
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Poodlestrike

I kind of reject the thesis here that this is an equivalent phenomenon to the Republican conspiracy sphere. Firstly, this isn't getting whipped up out of thin air. Secondly, when liberals see it debunked they ACCEPT THE DEBUNKING. You STILL find tons of pizzagate believers on the right.

I didn't really think about it this way, but yea. Every time I debunked a weird thing to my democratic friends, they just accept it.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Poodlestrike

I kind of reject the thesis here that this is an equivalent phenomenon to the Republican conspiracy sphere. Firstly, this isn't getting whipped up out of thin air. Secondly, when liberals see it debunked they ACCEPT THE DEBUNKING. You STILL find tons of pizzagate believers on the right.

Well, I'm not sure about all of them.
ViperVisor
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:07 PM)
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That stuff tends to stay narrow-cast.

The conservative nonsense often reaches the airwaves on radio or fox news or even up to elected Republicans.
maquiladora
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:08 PM)
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When there is more than enough real news to prove this, you don't need fake news.
Jarate
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:08 PM)
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The left has small fringes of people who fall for this stuff

The right takes it as gospel

Fake news always existed, now it's just the basis for an entire political movement
rjinaz
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(05-19-2017, 09:10 PM)
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At least on gaf fake news is quickly shut down. People here fact check. You can't say that for most places on the internet.
Lord Frieza
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(05-19-2017, 09:13 PM)
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Article feels like it's reaching, for sure. I mean, this stuff is out there, sure, but it rarely gains traction. The left generally gets their news from multiple sources, so a lot of fake news loses credibility pretty quickly, and I feel those on the left are generally more skeptical. I mean, I'm sure that there are people who fall for it hook, line and sinker, but it's not nearly as widespread as I feel this article is trying to make it. Can't help but feel like this is a bit too much of a 'both sides' piece.
Jackpot
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bleepey

Mensch has been right way more times than she's been wrong and this is from someone who thinks she's crazy as cat shit

hmm...

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...-louise-mensch

The latest errors by Mensch, a former Conservative member of the UK parliament, were in keeping with past falsehoods she has posted online, including that the 2014 riots in Ferguson, Missouri, were funded by Russia, that the rightwing blogger Andrew Breitbart was assassinated at the order of Vladimir Putin, and that dozens of public figures are currently Russian agents.

“Even a blind pig finds a truffle once in a while,” said Kathleen Culver, director of the University of Madison-Wisconsin’s Center for Journalism Ethics. Culver noted that the supermarket tabloid the National Enquirer published authentic bombshells on the infidelity of former senator John Edwards in 2008 before resuming its less credible output.

The situation mirrors one, noted by BuzzFeed News, that now surrounds far-right bloggers supporting Trump, such as Mike Cernovich. Having consistently published false stories and championed ludicrous conspiracy theories such as the “Pizzagate” paedophilia myth, Cernovich was apparently rewarded by sources close to Trump with real disclosures.

Embarrassing how many Gaffer re-post the bilge she tweets.
BlastProcessing
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:14 PM)
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It's all obvious bullshit. It's hopium laced fanfic peddled to a scared and needy audience.

Paul Ryan is a traitor for refusing to investigate Trump’s Russia ties

Ok, all but that one.
andymcc
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(05-19-2017, 09:15 PM)
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Otherwise respectable people post Mensch all of the time in these threads. People point out her past, same posters keep regurgitating her garbage.
7DollarHagane
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(05-19-2017, 09:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pryce

I see people on here falling for it constantly. Just like Republicans (when it came against Hillary or Obama), some people are so eager for collusion they'll believe anything.

Being gullible isn't a part of your political views. It's human nature. We all have to be persistent in thinking critically.
Trokil
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(05-19-2017, 09:23 PM)
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Conspiracy theories do make you feel save, because the world is bad and somebody else pulls the strings, so there is not that much you can do and you knew that already from the start. Like religion they do take away responsibility from the individual.
DangerMouse
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(05-19-2017, 09:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nafai1123

Plenty of real news on Russia. No need to fall for fake bullshit.

Yeah I agree and the OP doesn't even include much stuff I've seen get around anyway, and we don't need fake stuff since like you said plenty of the real stuff also makes it pretty clear Trump has done some of this stuff (even accidentally admitting it) and goes beyond Trump, from their own lies and contradictions trying to cover it up and write it off that have come out to what they've been telling since the beginning.

Originally Posted by Lord Frieza

Article feels like it's reaching, for sure. I mean, this stuff is out there, sure, but it rarely gains traction. The left generally gets their news from multiple sources, so a lot of fake news loses credibility pretty quickly, and I feel those on the left are generally more skeptical. I mean, I'm sure that there are people who fall for it hook, line and sinker, but it's not nearly as widespread as I feel this article is trying to make it. Can't help but feel like this is a bit too much of a 'both sides' piece.

This.
Last edited by DangerMouse; 05-19-2017 at 09:42 PM.
catapult37
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:34 PM)
I've never heard any of the stuff in the OP. Guess it pays to avoid facebook.
DangerMouse
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by catapult37

I've never heard any of the stuff in the OP. Guess it pays to avoid facebook.

Yeah I don't even have one lol.
MIMIC
Why won't homeless people take my emails????????
(05-19-2017, 09:46 PM)
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I have never heard of any of this. Guess I'm good :)

If I don't recognize the source (and it has never been cited by anyone else), I'll typically just ignore it.
Costa Kid
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 09:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by cackhyena

Who would fall for that horseshit? Jesus.

Look at the millions who fall for Alex Jones' CRAZY conspiracy theories.
adamsappel
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:52 PM)
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It also seems like some of this fake news isn't being spread by actual lefties. I'm suspicious of some of the accounts who try to peddle it here. "I'm on GAF but only post in Trump-related threads and don't even like videogames." Smacks of "What's this Gamergate thing? Some game developer sleeping with journalists for good reviews? I'm just asking questions."
One Eyed Willy
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(05-19-2017, 09:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pryce

I see people on here falling for it constantly. Just like Republicans (when it came against Hillary or Obama), some people are so eager for collusion they'll believe anything.

This
Leondexter
(05-19-2017, 09:59 PM)
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Fake alt-right news gets debunked - by leftists.

Fake leftist news get debunked - by leftists as well.

When's the last time you saw even a GOP elected official debunk right wing bullshit? McCain saying Obama wasn't a terrorist in the 2008 election?
Shake Appeal
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(05-19-2017, 10:00 PM)
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This is particularly insidious because the Russia-Trump collusion story clearly has legs and requires long-term, thorough investigation. And it may well end this White House.

That's why I'm sympathetic to people getting pulled into the more farfetched stuff that orbits the core story. Whereas a lot of conspiracies on the "other side" have literally no basis in anything resembling reality.
Ishan
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 10:06 PM)
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Which gaffer made these? (Probably badly beaten)
TheCochese
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:07 PM)
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Going to copy this permalink for the next time I see bullshit peddled.
Cuburt
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(05-19-2017, 10:10 PM)
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There is definitely some truth to Democrats falling victim to the same fake news tactics in light of this ordeal since it seems just following along in big breaking news threads, poorly sourced news and teases pop up from Twitter but fortunately from what I've seen, people tend to call it out and the reason I even know of names like Mensch and Taylor is because people on here have call their credibility and sources into question when their tweets have been posted here. Some of that certainly is due to a thirst for news on the scandal and part of it is honestly just due to how rapidly breaking news is actually unfolding around this.

I think Democrats, liberal pundits, and everyone else really needs to take a deep breath since all this Russia stuff is still only getting started. Even with how fast things are moving, it will be a long process and even if people are anxious to get the answers now, and I do feel there is at least a degree of time sensitivity to finding out ASAP, it's a process that needs to be methodical, if I've learned anything in all the history lessons about Watergate in the last couple weeks. I also think that Mueller seems like the type of person that is especially thorough, which means to cover something that has the potential scope of something like this, especially if there is various agents and compromised figures in a complex web of corruption, we need clarity in a time of confusion. That applies to everyone watching, even when it's easy to watch the whole ordeal and get swept up in the theatrics, finding the truth is the most important thing that we all need to agree on.
IrishNinja
(05-19-2017, 10:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by shamanick

Louise Mensch retweet = unfollow

yeah, i'm just blocking these 3 so ill know it's shit when i see them retweeted elsewhere...vox makes a fine point about nothing preventing the left from falling for this shit as well
rec0ded1
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(05-19-2017, 10:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pryce

I see people on here falling for it constantly. Just like Republicans (when it came against Hillary or Obama), some people are so eager for collusion they'll believe anything.

Are they falling for it or tasked with spreading it...
KingK
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(05-19-2017, 10:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by jmood88

The difference is that there is no liberal news network spending every hour of every day pushing these conspiracy theories and treating them as fact. People always want to start the "both sides are the same" thing but that's not close to what's happening here. Some people retweeting or going to the sites isn't the same as what conservatives have been doing for years.

This is also very true. I remember seeing a couple studies recently proving that the left not only falls for less fake news than the right, but that the left also debunks/moves on from fake news much faster.

While I get really annoyed at Mensch and everyone posting random Twitter shit on here, in no way is it comparable in severity or scale with what goes on with the right.
Lord Frieza
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(05-19-2017, 10:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pryce

I see people on here falling for it constantly. Just like Republicans (when it came against Hillary or Obama), some people are so eager for collusion they'll believe anything.

Receipts?
Jarate
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:31 PM)
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Also, Mensch and Taylor do have "some" sources mixed in with their bullshit, they have been right on some very large things. They are far more credible then what many people consider actual "fake news" which is the "Hilary Clinton Sold Children Slaves to Iran."


These things are like baseball rumour mills, and I assume most people treat them as such. (Just like I assume some people take them far too literally). Idk why you'd even bring it up though, these type of journos have existed for a very long time
boiled goose
good with gravy
(05-19-2017, 10:41 PM)
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Id like to see numbers of Democrats that actually believe such things first.
Earthbound64
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(05-19-2017, 10:43 PM)
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Libertarian heroine Ayn Rand was a secret Russian agent charged with discrediting the American conservative movement.

Cyan
Red
(05-19-2017, 10:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by adamsappel

It also seems like some of this fake news isn't being spread by actual lefties. I'm suspicious of some of the accounts who try to peddle it here. "I'm on GAF but only post in Trump-related threads and don't even like videogames." Smacks of "What's this Gamergate thing? Some game developer sleeping with journalists for good reviews? I'm just asking questions."

Originally Posted by rec0ded1

Are they falling for it or tasked with spreading it...

There are definitely enough nutty people on the left to legit spread this stuff. Come on, dudes. We don't need to resort to meta-level "actually it's Russian propagandists talking about Russian propagandists" or whatever.

I don't see a ton of this being posted on gaf, though maybe I'm in the wrong threads. I only really remember that one dude with the skull avatar.
Earthbound64
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(05-19-2017, 11:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by gimmmick

An informed democratic voter already has a subscription to either the NYT or WP (or both).

So, not very many people (relatively speaking), then?
(To be clear, my comment is with regards to the subscription numbers of NYT and WP)
Last edited by Earthbound64; 05-19-2017 at 11:30 PM.
Raven117
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:46 PM)

Originally Posted by Pryce

I see people on here falling for it constantly. Just like Republicans (when it came against Hillary or Obama), some people are so eager for collusion they'll believe anything.

This....Great first post.
nomis
(05-19-2017, 11:47 PM)
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Schindler and Taylor have been consistently on the ball and ahead of the media with their sourcing, Vox talking shit about them because they like the exposure Mensch gives through retweets is pretty rich
Unison
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(05-19-2017, 11:52 PM)
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... and yet they are often right... and they clearly have some connections.

e.g. today Taylor correctly cited Kushner as the person of interest that the the Washington Post's headline story is referring to.


Joy Reid and The Independent have gone on to confirm this:

https://twitter.com/Independent/stat...76301809700864


That's not to say that we must believe everything they post, but "fake news" is not strictly applicable here.
Joe Shlabotnik
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(05-19-2017, 11:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by cackhyena

Who would fall for that horseshit? Jesus.

I haven't heard of any of these and Louise Mensch is a crazyperson. I didn't realize the NYT published an op-ed from her though. That's embarrassing.
ZOONAMI
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(05-19-2017, 11:56 PM)
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It's getting to the point where Trump being about to resign does at least seem somewhat plausible.
BrutishMrFish
Member
(05-19-2017, 11:57 PM)

Originally Posted by Unison

... and yet they are often right... and they clearly have some connections.

e.g. today Taylor correctly cited Kushner as the person of interest that the the Washington Post's headline story is referring to.

When there were literally only two people it could have been, that does nothing to help Taylor's credibility. And even then, Taylor and the others aren't "often" right, they are "sometimes" or "occasionally" right with a whole lot of crap thrown in that people wave away because it's what they want to hear.
Mindwipe
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(05-20-2017, 12:07 AM)
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The notion of Mensch as being leftist is hilarious (she used to be a Member of Parliament for the UK Conservative Party FFS and was Murdoch's professional useful idiot during her time on the Commons Media Select Committee) but she's certainly a bullshit artist.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
(05-20-2017, 12:09 AM)
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The Piss tapes and anything related to them is Bait. Even if they existed I doubt we will ever see them. Louise Mensch and Claude Taylor also are fake news in my opinion.
antonz
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(05-20-2017, 12:13 AM)
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If 25,000 shares or similar is considered widespread deception the Left has it pretty good. There are things Russia and the Alt-right pushes that gets shared hundreds of thousands of times if not millions and that is not counting the Air Time Foxnews and the like will give it.

Anything on the internet should be taken with a heavy dose of healthy skepticism. I don't care who is saying it unless they are the exact individual involved there can be spin or misleading presentation of facts.
That's where the difference is too. There is maybe unfounded information pushed that yeah Trump is about to go to prison and its all gonna happen today and that is misleading and it may take years if ever. That is different from peddling PedoPizzagate etc. where there is nothing but intention to harm and cause destruction.
Airola
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(05-20-2017, 12:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by jmood88

The difference is that there is no liberal news network spending every hour of every day pushing these conspiracy theories and treating them as fact. People always want to start the "both sides are the same" thing but that's not close to what's happening here. Some people retweeting or going to the sites isn't the same as what conservatives have been doing for years.

Well, right now it feels as if many news networks are competing on who gets to break the next Trump scandal.

I mean, have we actually gotten any actual 100% confirmed news where things have been studied and it can be said without a question that something certain has happened or will happen. No, it's always something about some "top official" and "sources" telling things are crazy. To me, feeling the need to bring out these "sources have told" stories with many "might be / might have / could be / could have" added to them shows they are craving for being able to break in the next hot story. You get the hottest new take on how Trump will soon fall and you've got your much needed clicks and followers in minutes.

I just can't help but see the parallels between what is happening now and what has happened for years and years with the right-wing nuts, and hell, even in god damn video game culture :D The closer E3 or some other major gaming event is, the more there are "sources" saying whatever. And most often nothing is real. It's really not that much different with politics either.

Not to say none of the claims aren't true or can't be true, but for crying out loud, for the past week it seems as if they are writing new scandals daily. And people here have been totally ecstatic about the amount of "bombs" are dropping. And it even feels like for many the amount of different things happening must be a proof of it all being real. Like, the more you hear about it, the more real it gets.

It's like a day without another Trump scandal is too boring. which it kinda really is though, can't deny it's exciting and even entertaining.
And people need to get their daily fix of assurances that Trump is even worse than he was yesterday and today impeachment/jail/death is more likely than what it was yesterday.



EDIT:
Also I still find it absurd how things have changed concerning Russia. Left used to ridicule the right for their phobia towards Russia / Soviet Union, and rightfully so. It has turned completely upside down. Now the left fear Russia like nothing else and right tries to be ok with them (or at least Trump tries to, lol).
Last edited by Airola; 05-20-2017 at 12:28 AM.
BajiBoxer
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(05-20-2017, 12:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jackpot

hmm...

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...-louise-mensch







Embarrassing how many Gaffer re-post the bilge she tweets.

Yeah. Even if she were 50/50, that's still a pretty shitty track record for a so called journalist. She's a rumor monger and anti-Russian conspiracy theorist (which is pretty damn unnecessary considering what they actually do). Anything legit she picks up on will come out in outlets like NYT or WaPo, after real journalists have done the leg work.

As for fake news, Democrats aren't clinging to it at nearly the level Republicans have been. It's important to see that it is spreading though, and to stay vigilant. We certainly don't want it to reach that level.
Sub Boss
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(05-20-2017, 12:20 AM)
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Reading all the threads you would think Trump is going to get kicked out of the White House and jailed any moment,unfortunately i don't think thats the case but still interesting
nomis
(05-20-2017, 12:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zeus Molecules

Claude Taylor also are fake news in my opinion.

Lol
Vincent Alexander
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(05-20-2017, 12:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lord Frieza

Article feels like it's reaching, for sure. I mean, this stuff is out there, sure, but it rarely gains traction. The left generally gets their news from multiple sources, so a lot of fake news loses credibility pretty quickly, and I feel those on the left are generally more skeptical. I mean, I'm sure that there are people who fall for it hook, line and sinker, but it's not nearly as widespread as I feel this article is trying to make it. Can't help but feel like this is a bit too much of a 'both sides' piece.

Agreed completely. Hell, I never even heard of any of these fake new stories, but I sure heard about a billion of the GOP ones.
animlboogy
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(05-20-2017, 12:34 AM)
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Louise Mensch is a particularly egregious example, but there are a bunch of tweetstorming charlatans out there getting attention for no particularly good reason beyond writing a large volume of conspiracy theories. Many of whom have pretty spotty pasts. Hell, Mensch was a Heat Street founder. Why the fuck are liberals letting her in?

Part of it, I think, is the fetishization of conservatives that hate Trump. But that's a list that includes #NeverTrump ghouls like Jason Chaffetz. There are better people to give a platform to than those with horrible politics we'd be fighting off in any context but this one.

It took something as strange and alarming as President Trump to unlock the desperation for liberals to engage in snake oil bullshit indistinguishable from Bengahzi and Birther bullshit, at least. I guess that counts for something.
Jackpot
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(05-20-2017, 12:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Unison

... and yet they are often right... and they clearly have some connections.

No they aren't. You only remember the stories they get right.

It'd be like taking PizzaGate seriously because the instigator was the first to identify Susan Rice in that unmasking thing.
.JayZii
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(05-20-2017, 12:44 AM)
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Everyone's looking for validation. Keep your heads screwed on straight, people.

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