• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

Killdozer
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:49 PM)
Killdozer's Avatar
Long story semi-short:
In 2001 my dad got a blood clot in his leg that severely limited the circulation below the knee.
In 2012 he fell and tore the quadricep muscle on that knee.
From 2001 to now he's had circulation issues with and any sore or cut that would open wouldn't heal and would get infected, resulting in surgeries to remove the tissue and get skin grafts. This happens time and again and again.

Basically his leg is beef jerky with a deformed football of a foot and rotting flesh.

His leg is once again not healing and now he wants to get a surgery to add cadaver veins/arteries to help improve circulation below his knee.

In my opinion he should have had the leg cut off below the knee years ago after it stopped healing and would always be in a state of decay.

I feel that he's stuck in a cycle with the 'wound center' that doesn't really give a shit about the right solution and just wants to keep cleaning and repackaging.

His 'specialist' is pushing for the surgery to improve circulation. I just see this as another cash grab for another procedure that's only delaying the inevitable while his body is falling apart.

I want him to get it amputated because it will help him get more mobile, remove the pain, and take stress off the body dealing with decaying flesh all the time.

I'm not a doctor but this looks terrible
NSFL
NSFL
NSFL

NSFL
NSFL

https://s14.postimg.org/5taabeffl/At...417_130755.jpg
I think I put a 7 day limit before it expires
I figured if anyone that doesn't have a vested interest of keeping him in this 'cycle' would get him checked into an ER immediately.

Problem is he's my dad, old, stubborn, and in a different state. I don't know how to 'make' him do the right thing, or at least see a doctor that doesn't have an ulterior motive. Is there anything like a health care advocate or or an agency I can call?

I'm worried that he's going to die from this latest surgery. Either while under or from an infection that comes afterwards. Not that an amputation isn't risky but at least it will be 'done' and he can move on with his life. Basically his life has been sidelined by this for about 5 years.

My brother and I are stuck because talking to him and trying to reason doesn't work. Even if we fly out there we can't 'make' him to go the ER. If anything forcing him directly will just make him more stubborn and lash out and take even worse care of himself.
ElectricBlanketFire
Too early for flapjacks?
(04-21-2017, 05:50 PM)
ElectricBlanketFire's Avatar
Uhhhh yeah he needs to go to the ER right now...
Killdozer
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:52 PM)
Killdozer's Avatar

Originally Posted by ElectricBlanketFire

Uhhhh yeah he needs to go to the ER right now...

That's the problem because even if we fly out and drag him there I doubt they can make him stay against his will.
Mathieran
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:54 PM)
As long as he is mentally sound and responsible for himself legally I can't think of any way. Can't look at the picture, just ate. But it sounds awful. Sorry for your troubles.
tbhysgb
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:54 PM)
tbhysgb's Avatar
Jesus I have nightmares now.... that surgery might've helped 4 years ago but that leg is toast imo. He's gonna go into septic shock and or gangrene
SodiumBenzoate
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:56 PM)
SodiumBenzoate's Avatar
That must smell awful
Foffy
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:57 PM)
Foffy's Avatar
If that's his leg right now, he needs to be in hospital.

That looks like a fucking open wound...
Baliis
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:58 PM)
Baliis's Avatar

Originally Posted by ElectricBlanketFire

Uhhhh yeah he needs to go to the ER right now...

He needed to be in the ER like, months ago holy shit.
Killdozer
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:06 PM)
Killdozer's Avatar

Originally Posted by Mathieran

As long as he is mentally sound and responsible for himself legally I can't think of any way. Can't look at the picture, just ate. But it sounds awful. Sorry for your troubles.

That's what I'm afraid of. He's mentally 100% there and there's no pretense to ever make a case that he's not mentally sound so it sounds like we're stuck.

Originally Posted by tbhysgb

Jesus I have nightmares now.... that surgery might've helped 4 years ago but that leg is toast imo. He's gonna go into septic shock and or gangrene

Yup. He could wake up one morning with an infection and be dead in the evening.


Originally Posted by Foffy

If that's his leg right now, he needs to be in hospital.

That looks like a fucking open wound...

If you look closely you can see the tendons and possibly bone. I've seen bone in there before. It's all fucking ridiculous.
ColdPizza
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:08 PM)
Don't think so OP. Unless he's not mentally competent you can't force him. Went theu the same thing with my wife's uncle and cancer. He didn't want to do anything.
Barzul
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:08 PM)
Barzul's Avatar
Holy shit. It looks like it's legit decaying. Yup amputation sounds about right.
FyreWulff
I Spit Hot Fyre
(04-21-2017, 06:09 PM)
FyreWulff's Avatar
My uncle fought against the wound care doctors for years. Similar issues, his leg was basically starting to rot, mostly because he wouldn't do the required maintenance and when one of the nurses told him she could save his leg, he literally took it as a challenge and stopped going.

They cut his leg off last year.

(and he's supposed to be able to be fully mobile on a prosthetic, but he's fighting PT on that too, so he just sits in a wheelchair all day for the past year)

unfortunately if you have people that think something is going to do all the work for them.. amputation is probably inevitable.

edit: I've seen worse legs recovered. But it requires 100% patient compliance. Which my uncle and your dad seem to lack.
StopMakingSense
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:09 PM)
StopMakingSense's Avatar
God that looks worse than those krokodil photos.
Killdozer
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:10 PM)
Killdozer's Avatar

Originally Posted by StopMakingSense

God that looks worse than those krokodil photos.

Hah, that's the first thing my brother said when I sent him the pic.
red731
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:10 PM)
red731's Avatar
This is Krokodil bad holy fuck man.
McBryBry
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:11 PM)
McBryBry's Avatar
Jesus fucking christ straight jacket him and get him in there, thats straight fucked
driggonny
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:11 PM)
driggonny's Avatar
Fucking shit, I wish I had an answer OP. That looks like he should be in the ER RIGHT NOW
hobozero
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:13 PM)
hobozero's Avatar
ok, to start IANAL! Some cursory reading seems to show that in many states, an emergency care giver like a paramedic can have a person taken to the ER if he/she feels that the patient is unable to provide informed consent to refuse treatment.

From the article:
http://www.jems.com/articles/print/v...can-legal.html

And, Magauran writes, “Courts have recognized that patients who do not acknowledge their illness (often referred to as ‘lack of insight’) cannot make valid decisions about treatment.”

Finally, Adams states, “If the physician determines that the patient lacks decision-making capacity, the patient can be denied the right to make meaningful decisions regarding his or her medical care.”4 These differences in ethical and legal opinions further illustrate the need to understand local guidelines.

There are five basic tenants that are accepted as the foundation of informed consent. To quote Lu and Adams:

1. The patient must have sufficient information about his or her medical condition.
2. The patient must understand the risks and benefits of available options, including the option not to act.
3. The patient must have the ability to use the above information to make a decision in keeping with his or her personal values.
4. The patient must be able to communicate his or her choices.
5. The patient must have the freedom of will to act without undue influence from other parties, including family and friends.5

These aspects of informed consent can be applied to refusals in order to best mitigate the conflict between the care provider’s duty to treat and to respect patient autonomy.

So, maybe calling a paramedic, or showing up with an emergency caregiver of some sort, like convincing his family Dr to make a house call with you, will be enough? Even if he doesn't agree to seek medical attention, his consent may not necessarily be required if he is ignoring an obvious threat to his health.

Maybe start by talking to his doctor, or even your doctor, see if there is some grounds to compel treatment. Good luck.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:13 PM)
Steeped in a Sea of Games's Avatar
I'm legitimately sorry, but this is going to kill him. I'm not sure why some people choose death over fixing things like this, but I can say I've experienced similar problems with my own father (though not this bad).
Killdozer
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:15 PM)
Killdozer's Avatar

Originally Posted by hobozero

ok, to start IANAL! Some cursory reading seems to show that in many states, an emergency care giver like a paramedic can have a person taken to the ER if he/she feels that the patient is unable to provide informed consent to refuse treatment.

From the article:
http://www.jems.com/articles/print/v...can-legal.html



So, maybe calling a paramedic, or showing up with an emergency caregiver of some sort, like convincing his family Dr to make a house call with you, will be enough? Even if he doesn't agree to seek medical attention, his consent may not necessarily be required if he is ignoring an obvious threat to his health.

Maybe start by talking to his doctor, or even your doctor, see if there is some grounds to compel treatment. Good luck.

That's the angle I took this morning. I'm trying to find out his GP's contact info and then get in contact with him and send the picture. Hoping that he could convince my dad to go to the ER or send an ambulance. However at this point I haven't received a response from anyone that might know.
FyreWulff
I Spit Hot Fyre
(04-21-2017, 06:15 PM)
FyreWulff's Avatar

Originally Posted by Steeped in a Sea of Games

I'm legitimately sorry, but this is going to kill him. I'm not sure why some people choose death over fixing things like this, but I can say I've experienced similar problems with my own father (though not this bad).

oppositional defiant personality

they literally can be against the most sane logical stuff simply because other people want to do it or hold it as an opinion
Jarrod38
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:15 PM)
Jarrod38's Avatar
Sadly there is nothing you can do. The only way you could was to get him legally declared incompetent.
Squirrel Killer
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:19 PM)
Squirrel Killer's Avatar
We need to know more. Your rights to override another person's wishes, especially as it concerns lopping off a part of their body, will vary greatly depending on jurisdiction and the situation. Where are you located, where is your dad, what's his mental health and marital status, what (besides doctors make a lot of money) makes you think the doctor is just recommending something other than amputation just for the money?
bggrthnjsus
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:27 PM)
bggrthnjsus's Avatar
that's lookin pretty ripe

probably coming off one way or another, seems like a matter of time to osteomyelitis. probably better to amputate now before the really bad complications begin. i'm no orthopod or vascular surgeon (but i am a pathologist) and have definitely have seen a decent number of amputations for less than that.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:32 PM)
Steeped in a Sea of Games's Avatar

Originally Posted by FyreWulff

oppositional defiant personality

they literally can be against the most sane logical stuff simply because other people want to do it or hold it as an opinion

I think there's some real fear involved when it comes to limbs as well. My grandfather had complications with circulation due to diabetes and chain smoking and lost his leg as a result. He was literally never the same up to the day he died. He actually seemed to have lost his mind a little. He became extremely forgetful, much more meek, and just sort of loopy. The whole situation sucked, but I really believe it was mostly due to his stubbornness. It's like he lost part of his identity and couldn't cope.
Killdozer
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:50 PM)
Killdozer's Avatar

Originally Posted by Squirrel Killer

We need to know more. Your rights to override another person's wishes, especially as it concerns lopping off a part of their body, will vary greatly depending on jurisdiction and the situation. Where are you located, where is your dad, what's his mental health and marital status, what (besides doctors make a lot of money) makes you think the doctor is just recommending something other than amputation just for the money?

I know I can't make him get his leg cut off but I know he needs to be in the ER and get sound medical advice.

I'm in CO, brother in WA, and dad in AZ. Mental state is fine. Married with second wife.

Couple of thins:
His leg has always been in a state of decay since around 2006-2007 and has always been getting worse. First it was the foot turning into mush, with sores and cuts that needed to be cleaned and skin grafts. Then his toes and ankle fused because the foot basically wasn't functioning anymore. Still having open wounds all the while. Then after 2010 the wounds started appearing on the upper part of the leg (still below the knee) and they would constantly get infected and have to be surgically cleaned and skin grafts applied. Basically since 2012 or 2013 there has always been an open wound on that part of the leg that needed constant care. It never healed and it was just surgical cleaning and skin graft repeated over and over as the wound got bigger and bigger.

He's getting older, diabetic, doesn't take good care of himself because he's always sucking down Vicodin and vodka martinis because of the pain. The diabetes, combined with the pain killers, alcohol, and his body constantly in a state of healing and filtering dead tissue it must be extremely taxing on his system. Going in to have a major operation to add some vascular tissue by cutting open 'good' parts of his body to possibly fix a completely fucked up and useless stump of a leg doesn't make sense to me. Based on his conditions he could die on the operating table or die from an infection either directly post-op or just down the line because the leg won't heal. It's not going to work, the thing is fucking beef jerky.
FyreWulff
I Spit Hot Fyre
(04-21-2017, 07:07 PM)
FyreWulff's Avatar
Vicodin and vodka means he's basically amplifying the high of the vicodin while also risking death...

Thread Tools