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pbsapeer
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by KurtSloane

Sorry to sound ignorant, but as far as I was concerned health insurance never covered pre existing conditions.

It is that way in the UK (from what I know) .... I know we have the NHS and its not as serious as this news, but was just wondering if I had a bad information?

I have vitality health care through work and I assure you it covers pre existing conditions.
My old AXA cover didn't though.
Veitsev
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by KurtSloane

Sorry to sound ignorant, but as far as I was concerned health insurance never covered pre existing conditions.

It is that way in the UK (from what I know) .... I know we have the NHS and its not as serious as this news, but was just wondering if I had a bad information?

You have bad information.

Not only were you denied treatment for the preexisting conditions you could also be denied enrollment or placed in a highly costly pool.
NoblesseOblige
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:15 AM)
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GOP needs to realize they're not thinking strategically. With this change it means the side that's healthier will win. And what's the key to the healthiness of a species? Genetic diversity. Which is exactly what the inbred white folk on the right lack.
animlboogy
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:15 AM)
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Pay for auto companies and banks to stay afloat, subsidizing their own mistakes.

Let the tax paying citizens who funded that die en masse.

If that doesn't tell you what the intrinsic purpose of a first world nation like the U.S. is, I dunno how else to get it across.
Intheflorsh
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:15 AM)
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RIP thousands of people
mid83
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:16 AM)

Originally Posted by massoluk

https://twitter.com/CraigCaplan/stat...264282624?s=09


Sorry America, literally lots of people condemned to die today

Not that it changes the inevitable (pre existing conditions coverage can't work without the mandate), but here is a little more info on what exactly this vote was. Keep in mind nothing is happening yet after these votes, other than setting the table for an eventual repeal vote.

In its lengthy series of votes, the Senate rejected amendments proposed by Democrats that were intended to allow imports of prescription drugs from Canada, protect rural hospitals and ensure continued access to coverage for people with pre-existing conditions, among other causes.

In the parlance of Capitol Hill, many of the Democrats’ proposals were “messaging amendments,” intended to put Republicans on record as opposing popular provisions of the Affordable Care Act. The budget blueprint is for the guidance of Congress; it is not presented to the president for a signature or veto and does not become law.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/u...te-a-rama.html
titiklabingapat
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:16 AM)
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I hope the Democrats play this up until the Midterms. Republicans are literally killing people with this. Don't let up and let it be known relentlessly and the hope the public's punishment to the Republicans is quick, swift and devastating.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
(01-12-2017, 07:16 AM)
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What savagery Jesus Christ
Dreams-Visions
I'm mad as hell but this sandwich is delicious
(01-12-2017, 07:16 AM)
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Remember this, "they're both the same" crowd.
Branduil
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:17 AM)
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Every Republican who voted for this deserves the spot in hell they've earned with this vote. So many people are going to die because of them.
adj_noun
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:17 AM)
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I'm starting to think maybe both sides aren't the same.
exmachina64
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dreams-Visions

Remember this, "they're both the same" crowd.

They won't.
Brakke
(01-12-2017, 07:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by mid83

Not that it changes the inevitable (pre existing conditions coverage can't work without the mandate), but here is a little more info on what exactly this vote was. Keep in mind nothing is happening yet after these votes, other than setting the table for an eventual repeal vote.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/u...te-a-rama.html

Yeah OP's title is a bit misleading. Evil is "winning", it hasn't "won". That's... not much of a salve but. Let's hold onto what hope we can, I guess.
Veitsev
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dreams-Visions

Remember this, "they're both the same" crowd.

But she had a private email server

she was too close to Wall Street

she just didn't feel trustworthy
DocSeuss
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jarmel

Doesn't really matter. The whole thing was full of co--dependent clauses. Something those fucking idiots complaining about the ACA fail to understand.

This is what happens when you have a bunch of dimwits who could barely pass introductory economics having a say about national policies.

Yeah but in their defense, ACA is a huge pain to read. Like, someone once told me that was by design, and I didn't believe them then, but when reading that nonsense, like holy shit, maybe that person was on to something. It's the worst-written law I've ever read.
mercenar1e
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:18 AM)
will Americans even take to the street? do they not give two fucks about what's going on?
TheSchwab_7
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by mercenar1e

will Americans even take to the street? do they not give two fucks about what's going on?

Doubt it. Just complain on the internet and prepare to RIP in peace.
rockinreelin
Junior Member
(01-12-2017, 07:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by KurtSloane

Sorry to sound ignorant, but as far as I was concerned health insurance never covered pre existing conditions.

It is that way in the UK (from what I know) .... I know we have the NHS and its not as serious as this news, but was just wondering if I had a bad information?

Federal law prohibits denying insurance for company purchased health insuranc even for those with pre-existing conditions. In the past though this was not the case for self purchased health insurance. This meant those freelancing/contractors with pre-existing conditions were almost always denied self purchased insurance. ACA changed that with the mandate and the insurance exchanges.
Rayne009
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by mercenar1e

will Americans even take to the street? do they not give two fucks about what's going on?

Bodies have to start piling up.

So give it some time sadly.
massoluk
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by mid83

Not that it changes the inevitable (pre existing conditions coverage can't work without the mandate), but here is a little more info on what exactly this vote was. Keep in mind nothing is happening yet after these votes, other than setting the table for an eventual repeal vote.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/u...te-a-rama.html

I agree, would any mod like to change the title?
Last edited by massoluk; 01-12-2017 at 07:24 AM.
Joyful
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:20 AM)
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republicans are legit evil
McBryBry
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:20 AM)
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Girlfriend has Crohns and healthcare as a manager through Dollar Tree. Is she fucked?
kess
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by mercenar1e

will Americans even take to the street? do they not give two fucks about what's going on?

Spraypainting Hillary for Prison on a homemade sign on the side of the highway is easier than explaining how Senate committees draft laws.
higemaru
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by mercenar1e

will Americans even take to the street? do they not give two fucks about what's going on?

There are protests but it takes a lot of time for these things to gain momentum and most Americans can't afford to lose the paycheck. And it really feels like our government doesn't listen. We need to vote better people into office into buying into scare tactics.
exmachina64
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by mercenar1e

will Americans even take to the street? do they not give two fucks about what's going on?

On the contrary, half the country will cheer.
mercenar1e
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:23 AM)

Originally Posted by exmachina64

On the contrary, half the country will cheer.

we should take the United out of the states and just make a new country.
Codeblue
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by mercenar1e

will Americans even take to the street? do they not give two fucks about what's going on?

Did you catch the piece on VOX where this lady's husband was awaiting a new liver and the only way they could afford it was through the ACA, but they voted Trump anyway?

This is a sporting event to some people, and they are going to root for their team even if it means their spouse dies.
gfxtwin
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:27 AM)
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No healthcare is the least of my worries. TBH I don't give a fuck if it is repealed. I don't want mandatory health insurance. I can't afford to pay $200 a month, and I didn't qualify for any benefits despite technically being in poverty and having mental illness. I was told by friends and fam that it was a state thing (Good Ol Texas). So while my feels go out to those who this effects, I would be lying if I said I wasn't relieved. About mandatory health insurance going away, at least. Everything else about Trump being elected is a fuck.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dreams-Visions

Remember this, "they're both the same" crowd.

Both them and the right have fully shown at this point that there is literally nothing that will change their side. That crowd will ALWAYS spout that bullshit, and the right will ALWAYS accept literally anything Republican leadership will tell them.
Maximo
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by mercenar1e

we should take the United out of the states and just make a new country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9RuaB3c9FQ
PBY
(01-12-2017, 07:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by gfxtwin

No healthcare is the least of my worries. TBH I don't give a fuck if it is repealed. I don't want mandatory health insurance. I can't afford to pay $200 a month, and I didn't qualify for any benefits despite technically being in poverty and having mental illness. I was told by friends and fam that it was a state thing (Good Ol Texas). So while my feels go out to those who this effects, I would be lying if I said I wasn't relieved. About mandatory health insurance going away, at least. Everything else about Trump being elected is a fuck.

I mean... instead of cheering for this solution... why not trying to fix it?
Polari
Banned
(01-12-2017, 07:29 AM)
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Title is completely wrong - this doesn't mean the end of coverage for pre-existing conditions. To quote NYT:

In its lengthy series of votes, the Senate rejected amendments proposed by Democrats that were intended to allow imports of prescription drugs from Canada, protect rural hospitals and ensure continued access to coverage for people with pre-existing conditions, among other causes.

In the parlance of Capitol Hill, many of the Democrats’ proposals were “messaging amendments,” intended to put Republicans on record as opposing popular provisions of the Affordable Care Act. The budget blueprint is for the guidance of Congress; it is not presented to the president for a signature or veto and does not become law.

The Republicans were always going to vote them down.
ErasureAcer
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:29 AM)
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OP did link to a guy with a lot of info who is covering this non-stop. That was good at least. Didn't hear a peep from the media on healthcare votes today. Trump also didn't say shit in his news conference other than generic shit regarding healthcare.
Last edited by ErasureAcer; 01-12-2017 at 07:32 AM.
MAB128
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:34 AM)
I'm ok with Obamacare being gone.

Too many people can just barely afford the insurance let alone the actual deductibles/co-payments that are usually attached to them. It helps with catastrophic situations but those situations were still going to be dealt with regardless in many cases. So what do they get? The great feeling of helping others subsidize their health care cost? "Fuck them, I'm hurting economically here. I don't have the money to help others when I can't even help myself.", is what I've heard a lot.
SomewhatGroovy
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by rockinreelin

Federal law prohibits denying insurance for company purchased health insuranc even for those with pre-existing conditions. In the past though this was not the case for self purchased health insurance. This meant those freelancing/contractors with pre-existing conditions were almost always denied self purchased insurance. ACA changed that with the mandate and the insurance exchanges.

So you could get coverage through company purchased plans but were the operations and medical needs around pre existing conditions covered by the insurance? If you had a history of cancer, purchased a new insurance plan, would chemo be covered, for example?
Wallach
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Polari

Title is completely wrong - this doesn't mean the end of coverage for pre-existing conditions. To quote NYT:



The Republicans were always going to vote them down.

It's still gone; they declined the amendment while rushing for a repeal without shit to replace it with. So the second they follow through with the repeal like they are obviously going to it will die.
Alphahawk
World's #1 Rob Thomas Fan!
Attended over 315 Matchbox 20 concerts

When she says baby, I can't help but be scared of it all sometimes. Says the rain's gonna wash away, I believe it!

GREATEST SINGER EVER
(01-12-2017, 07:37 AM)
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I hesitate to even post, because this forum reacts negatively to anything that isn't 100% anti trump, but at the same time I still feel like this point should be made.

Trump doesn't want people to die in the street

Republicans do not want people to die in the street.

In fact if you take a look at the Mitch McConnell health draft which will most likely replace Obamacare, a major section of it is devoted to covering with pre-existing conditions.

Will everything work out perfectly? No, life's never that clear cut. but the answer is less black and white than a lot of you are making it.
Matty77
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:38 AM)

Originally Posted by gfxtwin

No healthcare is the least of my worries. TBH I don't give a fuck if it is repealed. I don't want mandatory health insurance. I can't afford to pay $200 a month, and I didn't qualify for any benefits despite technically being in poverty and having mental illness. I was told by friends and fam that it was a state thing (Good Ol Texas). So while my feels go out to those who this effects, I would be lying if I said I wasn't relieved. About mandatory health insurance going away, at least. Everything else about Trump being elected is a fuck.

But don't you realize the "sorry for those it will hurt and kill but I am glad because it's good for me" attitude has a lot to do with why Trump got elected in the first place?

I'm happy that when I die from an embolism and my mom goes into a diabetic come because the mandatory medicine needed to live is way too expenisve when your on a fixed income that you get to save some money.
Zackat
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by MAB128

I'm ok with Obamacare being gone.

Too many people can just barely afford the insurance let alone the actual deductibles/co-payments that are usually attached to them. It helps with catastrophic situations but those situations were still going to be dealt with regardless in many cases. So what do they get? The great feeling of helping others subsidize their health care cost? "Fuck them, I'm hurting economically here. I don't have the money to help others when I can't even help myself.", is what I've heard a lot.

Obamacare isn't perfect, but losing this pre-existing coverage is bad.
commedieu
Aliens made this post
(01-12-2017, 07:39 AM)
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Heh.
Take that, system!
Cartman86
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alphahawk

I hesitate to even post, because this forum reacts negatively to anything that isn't 100% anti trump, but at the same time I still feel like this point should be made.

Trump doesn't want people to die in the street

Republicans do not want people to die in the street.

In fact if you take a look at the Mitch McConnell health draft which will most likely replace Obamacare, a major section of it is devoted to covering with pre-existing conditions.

Will everything work out perfectly? No, life's never that clear cut. but the answer is less black and white than a lot of you are making it.

We went over this years ago now. The free market doesn't work. They are effectively killing people.
Ac30
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:42 AM)

Originally Posted by Alphahawk

I hesitate to even post, because this forum reacts negatively to anything that isn't 100% anti trump, but at the same time I still feel like this point should be made.

Trump doesn't want people to die in the street

Republicans do not want people to die in the street.

In fact if you take a look at the Mitch McConnell health draft which will most likely replace Obamacare, a major section of it is devoted to covering with pre-existing conditions.

Will everything work out perfectly? No, life's never that clear cut. but the answer is less black and white than a lot of you are making it.

Can I get a look at this draft? Thanks
Massive Duck, C.M.
Banned
(01-12-2017, 07:42 AM)

Originally Posted by Alphahawk

I hesitate to even post, because this forum reacts negatively to anything that isn't 100% anti trump, but at the same time I still feel like this point should be made.

Trump doesn't want people to die in the street

Republicans do not want people to die in the street.

In fact if you take a look at the Mitch McConnell health draft which will most likely replace Obamacare, a major section of it is devoted to covering with pre-existing conditions.

Will everything work out perfectly? No, life's never that clear cut. but the answer is less black and white than a lot of you are making it.

Repealing it without something else ready to go is irresponsible at best, and we know that while Trump's/republican's motivations for repealing ACA were mostly likely not to kill people, we also know that they are far from altruistic.

What are you trying to say
mj1108
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:43 AM)

Originally Posted by Alphahawk


Republicans do not want people to die in the street.

I have never seen anything that suggests this.

Republicans do not give a shit about the poor and middle class.
David H Wong
Banned
(01-12-2017, 07:44 AM)
The panic reactions are making it legitimately hard for people to actually figure out what is happening. I've got people on twitter who think they lost their health care coverage tonight.

At worst this is a years-long phaseout, but lots of these provisions (like pre-existing conditions) ARE supported by Republicans and are very popular with voters. They just didn't support those amendments in tonight's largely symbolic vote.

They haven't even begun the process of figuring out what the new system will look like. But this knee-jerk "Guess evil won, oh well" bullshit is so fucking obnoxious. No wonder they mock us as weak. "Trump talked to the president of Taiwan, guess this means WWIII will happen next month. Oh well." "Trump yelled at a CNN reporter, guess this means no more freedom of the press and now we live in a totalitarian police state."

Jesus, people. Apathy is bad but non-stop sensationalist panic is even worse.
Last edited by David H Wong; 01-12-2017 at 07:52 AM.
ErasureAcer
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alphahawk

I hesitate to even post, because this forum reacts negatively to anything that isn't 100% anti trump, but at the same time I still feel like this point should be made.

Trump doesn't want people to die in the street

Republicans do not want people to die in the street.

In fact if you take a look at the Mitch McConnell health draft which will most likely replace Obamacare, a major section of it is devoted to covering with pre-existing conditions.

Will everything work out perfectly? No, life's never that clear cut. but the answer is less black and white than a lot of you are making it.

I think someone has listened to Unwell one too many times.
LycanXIII
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:44 AM)
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So what if they don't like Trump's plan either?
exmachina64
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alphahawk

I hesitate to even post, because this forum reacts negatively to anything that isn't 100% anti trump, but at the same time I still feel like this point should be made.

Trump doesn't want people to die in the street

Republicans do not want people to die in the street.

In fact if you take a look at the Mitch McConnell health draft which will most likely replace Obamacare, a major section of it is devoted to covering with pre-existing conditions.

Will everything work out perfectly? No, life's never that clear cut. but the answer is less black and white than a lot of you are making it.

High-risk health pools do not effectively cover people with pre-existing conditions. We've been there before, that was the system before the ACA. We don't have to wait with baited breath to see if the outcome is different this time.

Trump and Republicans can say they don't want people to die in the streets, but that is what will happen after they repeal the ACA. We already know they didn't have a viable alternative crafted during the Obama administration.

What people don't realize about health care in America is that the costs have been greatly increasing for years. We have evidence that the cost curve was bent after the ACA took effect, i.e. costs increased at a lower rate than they were increasing before.

People looked at the increasing costs they had to shoulder and complained because they wanted to go back to when their costs were lower. Everything we know about the plans Republicans and Trump have for replacing the ACA will not lower costs to what they were before the ACA and will not slow the increase of costs.

Your health plan will cover less, cost more, and the cost will increase at an increasing rate.

If you have a job that covers your health needs effectively and pays you well, you'll be happy. If you can afford whatever increased costs you face, you'll be happy. Many Americans are rightly dismayed because they will not be able to afford coverage under whatever system replaces the ACA.

Originally Posted by LycanXIII

So what if they don't like Trump's plan either?

They'll vote for him again.
norinrad
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:48 AM)
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In a way this quote is as chilling as appropriate on how right it is.


"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced."
mid83
Member
(01-12-2017, 07:48 AM)

Originally Posted by David H Wong

The panic reactions are making it legitimately hard for people to actually figure out what is happening. I've got people on twitter who think they lost their health care coverage tonight.

At worst this is a years-long phaseout, but lots of these provisions (like pre-existing conditions) ARE supported by Republicans and are very popular with voters. They just didn't support those amendments in tonight's largely symbolic vote.

They haven't even begun the process of figuring out what the new system will look like. But this knee-jerk "Guess evil won, oh well" bullshit is so fucking obnoxious. No wonder they mock us as weak. "Trump talked to the president of Taiwan, guess this means WWIII will happen next month. Oh well." "Trump yelled at a CNN reporter, guess this means no more freedom of the press and no we live in a totalitarian police state."

Jesus, people. Apathy is bad but non-stop sensationalist panic is even worse.

Way too much of this recently. During the Sessions hearing on Tuesday morning I saw people here say we are going back to the 1920s and somebody suggested Sessions was going to reverse Brown v. Board of Education. No need for this level of panic.

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