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ItWasMeantToBe19
Member
(01-12-2017, 09:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kevinroc

But they're not dropping the filibuster, right? How can they expect to get a bill through with Democrats threatening to filibuster anything they deem worse than the ACA?

They have the ability to remove the subsides and mandate and Medicaid funding without the filibuster (since those are included in taxes and budgeting and can be changed through reconciliation). Obamacare falls apart without the mandate and funding. They're hoping in the period afterward that some Dems will cave and pass a replacement plan since the insurance market will be on fire and people will be dying in that period.
Matty77
Member
(01-12-2017, 09:38 AM)

Originally Posted by gfxtwin

Keep in mind, I weighed the options and Voted for Hillary hoping she would transform Obamacare into universal healthcare during her term(s). She's campaigned on that before. I'm sorry you're going through the loss of healthcare given those health problems, but If I continued to pay for mine my life might be in jeopardy as well as I'd end up homeless most likely. $200 a month is a lot for me and the difference between having a place to stay and being on the street. I've chosen not to pay for healthcare this year because I cant afford it and will pay the fine instead, which I guess is a couple hundred dollars or a bit more. But it would keep escalating over time each year and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't relieved that I might not have to worry about that anymore. Then again, Trump is full of shit and you can't believe anything he says so maybe he won't totally repeal obamacare after all. I wish the best for you and yours and truly hope that shithead's reign doesn't do to much damage for you guys.

We need just a better system all around. I don't think Obamacare was perfect by any means(though a lot of that also has to do with R's defanging the process and putting profits for coverage providers front and center which kind of defeats the purpose, profit driven healthcare and universal coverage cannot co-exist peacefully) I'm just concerned with the idea of blowing it all up versus fixing it and no faith in conservatives to actually replace anything regardless of what they say.
shawnbuddy
Member
(01-12-2017, 09:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Veitsev

But she had a private email server

she was too close to Wall Street

she just didn't feel trustworthy

Her voice. Her voice was a little shrill some times.
Kevinroc
Member
(01-12-2017, 09:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by ItWasMeantToBe19

They have the ability to remove the subsides and mandate and Medicaid funding without the filibuster (since those are included in taxes and budgeting and can be changed through reconciliation). Obamacare falls apart without the mandate and funding. They're hoping in the period afterward that some Dems will cave and pass a replacement plan since the insurance market will be on fire and people will be dying in that period.

That's what I figured.

Trump can't drop some of the options not related to reconciliation through executive order, can he?

So it's all whether or not the Dems cave or not? And we all expect them to cave?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Member
(01-12-2017, 09:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kevinroc

That's what I figured.

Trump can't drop some of the options not related to reconciliation through executive order, can he?

So it's all whether or not the Dems cave or not? And we all expect them to cave?

I have no idea how this is going to proceed. There's many different paths. Three Republican Senators could cave and stop the defunding from happening because of the chaos it would bring, the defunding could happen and then the Dems just don't cave, lots can happen.

Tonight is not a binding vote. There's a lot of different possible futures for the ACA right now.
kess
Member
(01-12-2017, 09:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by ItWasMeantToBe19

They have the ability to remove the subsides and mandate and Medicaid funding without the filibuster (since those are included in taxes and budgeting and can be changed through reconciliation). Obamacare falls apart without the mandate and funding. They're hoping in the period afterward that some Dems will cave and pass a replacement plan since the insurance market will be on fire and people will be dying in that period.

That scenario will almost certainly result in some serious shenanigans. Remember how Zika funding was tied up in a Planned Parenthood defunding amendment? Well, you ain't seen shit yet.
Kevinroc
Member
(01-12-2017, 09:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by ItWasMeantToBe19

I have no idea how this is going to proceed. There's many different paths. Three Republican Senators could cave and stop the defunding from happening because of the chaos it would bring, the defunding could happen and then the Dems just don't cave, lots can happen.

Tonight is not a binding vote. There's a lot of different possible futures for the ACA right now.

I understand. I, like many, am taking tonight as a bad sign for things to come. I'm trying to sort through this in my head.

Sorry if I came across as badgering.
Rocwell
Member
(01-12-2017, 09:47 AM)
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This is absolutely criminal. I can't believe this is happening.
shawnbuddy
Member
(01-12-2017, 09:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alphahawk

I'm totally aware of how it used to be, I was a victim of that, but no one is talking about reverting back to how it was 2008, nobody wants that. Pre-existing condition coverage is here to stay. It's one thing in the AMA that both Republicans and democrats can agree on.

You may have noticed people spent a year saying things will never happen, then watching them happen. We're not in the land of rationality here. Also, how does guaranteed pre-existing coverage work without a mandate? The only way we could convince the insurance companies to cover the old and sick was to deliver them the young and healthy.
SaviourMK2
Member
(01-12-2017, 09:49 AM)
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Well, it's good to know people will be morally outraged by complaining on the internet instead of gathering and causing a scene at Senate and congress
thepotatoman
Member
(01-12-2017, 10:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by BreezyLimbo

does being fat count as a pre-existing condition

serious question

Smoking and age was the only two things that counted as pre-existing conditions insurers could charge more for in the ACA. There was a lot of talk about adding weight as well, but it's a little hard to measure that fairly, since genetics plays some role there, even if not the most important role.

I'd say it's extremely likely that what counts for pre-existing conditions will change under the new plan, possibly to the point that it only counts for conditions that developed as a child or while covered by insurance. People that develop something without insurance will have to find charity or use the emergency room and then avoid paying the bills, transferring the costs to all the patients that do pay the bills.

That's the only way I've seen so far that you could say is "coverage for pre-existing conditions" without a premium death spiral, an even more socialist universal health care plan, or just doing obamacare again under a different name. I don't know if that would include weight or not.
Last edited by thepotatoman; 01-12-2017 at 10:20 AM.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(01-12-2017, 10:14 AM)
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Sorry for the ignorance - can they deny you coverage based on a pre-existing condition, or they have to cover you but can jack up the premium? No limit on how much they can crank it up?
StayDead
um wat
(01-12-2017, 10:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by KurtSloane

Sorry to sound ignorant, but as far as I was concerned health insurance never covered pre existing conditions.

It is that way in the UK (from what I know) .... I know we have the NHS and its not as serious as this news, but was just wondering if I had a bad information?

The difference is in the UK, if you don't have health insurance you can still get treatment. In America you're literally fucked.
Derwind
Member
(01-12-2017, 10:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by SaviourMK2

Well, it's good to know people will be morally outraged by complaining on the internet instead of gathering and causing a scene at Senate and congress

You realize that makes no sense right?

Are you simply against people having discussions regarding current news on an Internet forum?

Otherwise, how do you know that this won't be protested against?
Shaanyboi
Member
(01-12-2017, 10:24 AM)
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But... economic anxiety!
thepotatoman
Member
(01-12-2017, 10:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by gofreak

Sorry for the ignorance - can they deny you coverage based on a pre-existing condition, or they have to cover you but can jack up the premium? No limit on how much they can crank it up?

Under obamacare, insurance providers can only set one base premium price, and then math defined by obamacare incorporates the person's age and smoking status to come up with the final price. No one could be denied for any reason, and everyone got the same exact benifits.

Before, they would have one very expensive plan that doesn't care about pre-existing conditions, or just offer you the same cheaper plan everyone else gets, but not covering the thing related to your pre-existing condition. Most people just got a normal plan and paid the full price for things related to their pre-existing condition.

Clinton made it so in group plans insurers have to start paying for any pre-existing conditions after 1 year of coverage, with the dynamics of group insurance plans softening the cost. In New York, they did the same for individual plans, but that made it have by far the highest premiums in the nation.
Last edited by thepotatoman; 01-12-2017 at 10:43 AM.
BreezyLimbo
Member
(01-12-2017, 10:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by thepotatoman

Smoking and age was the only two things that counted as pre-existing conditions insurers could charge more for in the ACA. There was a lot of talk about adding weight as well, but it's a little hard to measure that fairly, since genetics plays some role there, even if not the most important role.

I'd say it's extremely likely that what counts for pre-existing conditions will change under the new plan, possibly to the point that it only counts for conditions that developed as a child or while covered by insurance. People that develop something without insurance will have to find charity or use the emergency room and then avoid paying the bills, transferring the costs to all the patients that do pay the bills.

That's the only way I've seen so far that you could say is "coverage for pre-existing conditions" without a premium death spiral, an even more socialist universal health care plan, or just doing obamacare again under a different name. I don't know if that would include weight or not.

Hrm.

Hope they don't fuck us big people over.
GreenMonkey
Member
(01-12-2017, 10:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alphahawk

I'm totally aware of how it used to be, I was a victim of that, but no one is talking about reverting back to how it was 2008, nobody wants that. Pre-existing condition coverage is here to stay. It's one thing in the AMA that both Republicans and democrats can agree on.

Keepimg those things while getting rid of the mandate is going to blow the costs through the roof.

Even with the mandate they weren't exactly well under control.
WedgeX
Livin' Like A King
(01-12-2017, 11:00 AM)
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Got dang it.

People are so fucking selfish. No one has a pre-existing condition...until it happens to you! It hasn't even been a decade since the bad days. Why do people want that shit back again?

Fuck. Pregnancies are going to be pre-existing conditions again aren't they.
UnemployedVillain
Member
(01-12-2017, 11:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alphahawk

I'm totally aware of how it used to be, I was a victim of that, but no one is talking about reverting back to how it was 2008, nobody wants that. Pre-existing condition coverage is here to stay. It's one thing in the AMA that both Republicans and democrats can agree on.

Hope you like paying significantly more
broz0rs
Member
(01-12-2017, 11:15 AM)
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I just feel R's (lead by McConnell) did this because Obama's legacy was just too great, and this is the ultimate act they can do to tarnish it. They could care less about the consequences just winning the game.
SpaceCadetKeon
Member
(01-12-2017, 11:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by SaviourMK2

Well, it's good to know people will be morally outraged by complaining on the internet instead of gathering and causing a scene at Senate and congress

Our First Stand: Save Health Care is one taking place in many states.
Fried Food
Member
(01-12-2017, 11:17 AM)
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What does this mean, the insurance company can terminate your policy if you had a condition when you started the policy in the past?
thepotatoman
Member
(01-12-2017, 11:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fried Food

What does this mean, the insurance company can terminate your policy if you had a condition when you started the policy in the past?

They want to keep taking your premiums. They'll just stop paying for things related to your pre-existing conditions.
Kevinroc
Member
(01-12-2017, 11:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fried Food

What does this mean, the insurance company can terminate your policy if you had a condition when you started the policy in the past?

Not just yet. This was all procedural, setting the stage for what their bill will be. Which means there will be no guarantee that their future bill will have a clause protecting those with pre-existing conditions or will protect CHIP.
djkimothy
Member
(01-12-2017, 11:35 AM)

Originally Posted by mercenar1e

State senators? They had there say and it's gone. If California wants to implement there own obamacare policy they'll need to fund it on there own.

Honestly. they should. that is how Canada got its modern day health care system. Saskatchewan decided to do it one way and it was so popular that eventually all provinces joined in.

It's sad that Colorado voted 80% to not do single payer but it should not discourage other states to try. All it takes is one state.
michael92
Member
(01-12-2017, 11:47 AM)
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The only solution is to stop giving a single penny to the stupid American healthcare lobby. Import your drugs and fly to Mexico for surgeries/ dental.

This isn't just about insurance, prices are insane regardless, even in the so called "charity" hospitals.
norinrad
Member
(01-12-2017, 11:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by SaviourMK2

Well, it's good to know people will be morally outraged by complaining on the internet instead of gathering and causing a scene at Senate and congress

The Republicans always seem very mobilized on every issue, even when it's aweful they are mobilized. When they were against gay marriage, they came out in droves at the supreme Court everyday to protest even when they knew they were getting owned.

The problem with the Democrats is always, lol look at those crazies protesting. Oh well turns on his Xbox or PS4.
Xe4
Member
(01-12-2017, 11:57 AM)
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The only advantage I can see is people who voted Trump waking up to what they did when they can't have their black lung or w/e covered. Perhaps thy will understand Republicans are not the good guys. But I'm not optimistic.

This is why voting democratic matters people. That protest vote you took against Hillary is going to hurt a lot of people, because this would've been vetoed with her in office.

To all those with a pre-existing condition: I'm sorry. Truly and to the deepest extent, I'm going to try to do everything I can to get these fuckers out ASAP. I hope you all can hold out until that happens, but 2-4 and maybe more years is a long time.

I encourage everyone else to do the same. Start at the state level, particularly if you have a conservative state legislator or governor, and especially if there is heavy gerrymandering. Democrats barely lost the generic house vote, yet are a vast minority, we need to change that.
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
(01-12-2017, 12:04 PM)
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Well you've got your guns, what happened to "we need guns in case the government tries to...."
jb1234
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:06 PM)
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Part of me wonders how many people will choose to live in poverty (and thus get Medicaid, which has no pre-existing conditions clause) just to get healthcare for high-maintenance conditions. What a mess.
grimmiq
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by ItAintEasyBeinCheesy

Well you've got your guns, what happened to "we need guns in case the government tries to...."

"We need guns in case the government tries to take away our *BLANK*." has been "We need guns in case the government tries to take away our guns." for a while.
Thatonemoor
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:11 PM)
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If pre-existing condition coverage is gone then my dad is fucked when it comes to paying for his hip replacement.
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
(01-12-2017, 12:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by grimmiq

"We need guns in case the government tries to take away our *BLANK*." has been "We need guns in case the government tries to take away our guns." for a while.

Ah well, they can shoot the cancer away.
Ozorov
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:19 PM)
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What does "pre-existing condition" mean?
grimmiq
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by ItAintEasyBeinCheesy

Ah well, they can shoot the cancer away.

Can't argue with the facts, nobody that's died from a gunshot has died from cancer.

Originally Posted by Ozorov

What does "pre-existing condition" mean?

Any condition you had before you were covered.

Get cover, 6 months later you find out you have cancer,doctor says the symptoms were probably there for a while even if you didnt know, hurray! You're fucked.
Last edited by grimmiq; 01-12-2017 at 12:24 PM.
Joni
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ozorov

What does "pre-existing condition" mean?

If you could have had the sickness before your coverage started, it is a pre-existing condition. Please note this doesn't have to mean that you know you have the pre-existing condition.
Muppet of a Man
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by pbsapeer

Discriminating on previous disabilities should be illegal. I feel for you Americans. Trump voters really have fucked things up.

"Fucked things up" is putting it in a way that is far too kind. If this winds up affecting my son's life negatively (he has ASD), they best go run and hide.
Ozorov
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by grimmiq

Can't argue with the facts, nobody that's died from a gunshot has died from cancer.



Any condition you had before you were covered.

Get cover, 6 months later you find out you have cancer,doctor says the symptoms were probably there for a while, hurray! You're fucked.

Originally Posted by Joni

If you could have had the sickness before your coverage started, it is a pre-existing condition. Please note this doesn't have to mean that you know you have the pre-existing condition.

Okey so with Obamacare you're insured with pre-existing conditions also? With Trumps health care solution it will be gone?
Gutek
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:30 PM)
I am heartbroken. I hope they do not go through with it.
War Peaceman
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(01-12-2017, 12:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ozorov

Okey so with Obamacare you're insured with pre-existing conditions also? With Trumps health care solution it will be gone?

There is no replacement plan. There is no trump health care.
Muppet of a Man
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by War Peaceman

There is no replacement plan. There is no trump health care.

Meaning we will likely revert back to the high risk pool bullshit and be fucked (aka bankrupted).
Ozorov
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by War Peaceman

There is no replacement plan. There is no trump health care.

Lol okey, has he promised anything about the healthcare in the election?
grimmiq
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by War Peaceman

There is no replacement plan. There is no trump health care.

Haven't looked into it in a while (not American), but wasn't his plan to remove restrictions allowing Insurance sales interstate, saying that if every company has to compete with every other company across the country, prices will go down?
Bluth54
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by grimmiq


Any condition you had before you were covered.

Get cover, 6 months later you find out you have cancer,doctor says the symptoms were probably there for a while even if you didnt know, hurray! You're fucked.

I don't think it works like that, just if you don't have insurance and you try to get it then you can't be denied because of any illness you had. I don't think if you have insurance and you get something you can be dropped by your insurance.
Chirotera
Junior Member
(01-12-2017, 12:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by SaviourMK2

Well, it's good to know people will be morally outraged by complaining on the internet instead of gathering and causing a scene at Senate and congress

This.

People, call your senators. Call them and complain. Raise a shit storm. Call them every day. Call them until they listen.

http://www.senate.gov/senators/contact/

If they fail to listen, spearhead efforts to have them ousted.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
(01-12-2017, 12:42 PM)
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Your health system is fucked america. Like, seriously.
I'm so sorry for all the people who will suffer because of this.
grimmiq
Member
(01-12-2017, 12:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bluth54

I don't think it works like that, just if you don't have insurance and you try to get it then you can't be denied because of any illness you had. I don't think if you have insurance and you get something you can be dropped by your insurance.

Under ACA

Health insurers can no longer charge more or deny coverage to you or your child because of a pre-existing health condition like asthma, diabetes, or cancer. They cannot limit benefits for that condition either. Once you have insurance, they can't refuse to cover treatment for your pre-existing condition.

The bolded tells me they will now be able to say "Fuck you, we don't need to cover that anymore, give us more money."
besada
#NotMyAmerica
(01-12-2017, 12:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bluth54

I don't think it works like that, just if you don't have insurance and you try to get it then you can't be denied because of any illness you had. I don't think if you have insurance and you get something you can be dropped by your insurance.

If the insurance company determines you hid a pre-existing condition, they'll absolutely drop you. There were cases of people being dropped because of an acne problem they had when they were fourteen. Prior to the ACA, things were very different.

If you changed jobs, they had to offer you insurance along with everyone else, but if you had a pre-existing condition, they wouldn't pay for anything on it for a year. So, if you have diabetes and you change jobs, for a year no coverage of your diabetes.

The worse problem was for people who didn't get their insurance in pools at jobs. Those people were often simply denied coverage, or quoted so high it was effectively a denial.
Last edited by besada; 01-12-2017 at 12:49 PM.
Cynar
Banned
(01-12-2017, 12:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by gfxtwin

No healthcare is the least of my worries. TBH I don't give a fuck if it is repealed. I don't want mandatory health insurance. I can't afford to pay $200 a month, and I didn't qualify for any benefits despite technically being in poverty and having mental illness. I was told by friends and fam that it was a state thing (Good Ol Texas). So while my feels go out to those who this effects, I would be lying if I said I wasn't relieved. About mandatory health insurance going away, at least. Everything else about Trump being elected is a fuck.

Don't get sick because you'll be paying way more than $200 a month.

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