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RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(05-19-2017, 06:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by gamz

Lame. Hopefully MS meets with them and gets the ball rolling.

Those 200 MHz are going to make a massive difference /s
grfunkulus
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 06:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Hamburglar

they're using the cpu as an excuse. there is no reason this game should be 30fps considering it doesn't look any better than halo 5 and the pvp is 4v4.

Lol wat? Halo 5 resolution check plz. That game looks unfinished. The compromises made to get it to 60 were VAST. Halo 4 was way more impressive on the 360
daveo42
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:04 PM)
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Devs forget or just don't care about GPGPU compute it seems. Destiny 2 doesn't even look like it pushes base hardware all that hard tbh. It looks great, but not astounding. I'm sure they still got plenty of GPU horsepower left and decided to just leave it at 30fps across the board.
Trup1aya
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:06 PM)

Originally Posted by nOoblet16

You are reading facts which you can confirm yourself.
Go load up a warzone match and count how many enemies you see at once in one group (not the entire map). I can guarantee you it is not even 20+ which you can have in Destiny.

And you say "huge downgrade" what's this based on? More tales from ass? Care to elucidate on this huge downgrade ?

Not true really. You can obviously have 24 player character on screen, along with dozens of enemy AI.

In Firefight, you have 8 players, with even more AI than you'll see in Warzone+ many of those enemies will be in vehicles.
Hux1ey
Banned
(05-19-2017, 06:07 PM)

Originally Posted by daveo42

Devs forget or just don't care about GPGPU compute it seems. Destiny 2 doesn't even look like it pushes base hardware all that hard tbh. It looks great, but not astounding. I'm sure they still got plenty of GPU horsepower left and decided to just leave it at 30fps across the board.

CPU is much more of a factor in getting high framerate.
Raide
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by daveo42

Devs forget or just don't care about GPGPU compute it seems. Destiny 2 doesn't even look like it pushes base hardware all that hard tbh. It looks great, but not astounding. I'm sure they still got plenty of GPU horsepower left and decided to just leave it at 30fps across the board.

Programmed around the baseline PS4 and XB1, so they are limited from the start. It's just easier for Bungie to just keep at the standard and offer some IQ and resolution tweaks for Pro and Scorpio owners.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:08 PM)
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This is a nice explanation I guess. I dont really care if it is 30 fps.... I'll probably still really enjoy it.
Tecnniqe
Would die a thousand deaths just for one gun
(05-19-2017, 06:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by RoboPlato

Those 200 MHz are going to make a massive difference

I think you mean 200 flops, good sir.
Costia
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hux1ey

CPU is much more of a factor in getting high framerate.

He is talking about GPGPU.
I think the implication is that if physics and AI running on CPU is the problem, and they have spare GPU power, they could port some of the heavy AI/physics code to the GPU/
But this isn't a trivial task, and you cant do that on xbone. So you will have 2 different versions of the game. One with CPU physics/AI and one with a GPU implementation.
RdN
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:10 PM)
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Both the Pro and Scorpio don't have the horse power to handle [email protected]

The sooner people in here realize this, the better.
nekkid
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by RoboPlato

Those 200 MHz are going to make a massive difference /s

Depends where that limit is.

Originally Posted by RdN

Both the Pro and Scorpio don't have the horse power to handle [email protected]

The sooner people in here realize this, the better.

Who's saying 4K60?
LukasTaves
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by grfunkulus

Lol wat? Halo 5 resolution check plz. That game looks unfinished. The compromises made to get it to 60 were VAST. Halo 4 was way more impressive on the 360

Halo 5 uses dynamic res ranging mostly from 900p to 1080p.

And it looks no worse than other 60fps,at least not the ones that actually try to hit that and not just the ones that goes from 40-60
Fisty
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

I think you mean 200 flops, good sir.

He's talking about CPU speed

Originally Posted by Costia

He is talking about GPGPU.
I think the implication is that if physics and AI running on CPU is the problem, and they have spare GPU power, they could port some of the heavy AI/physics code to the GPU/
But this isn't a trivial task, and you cant do that on xbone. So you will have 2 different versions of the game. One with CPU physics/AI and one with a GPU implementation.

Yeah let's not forget that Bungie has to give Acti a HUGE amount of shares in the company if they don't hit in 2017. They don't have an extra 3 months to iron out a locked 60
Bringer Of Bacon
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:16 PM)
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Can they also explain why the game looks identical to D1 but had a 2 behind it?
daveo42
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Costia

He is talking about GPGPU.
I think the implication is that if physics and AI running on CPU is the problem, and they have spare GPU power, they could port some of the heavy AI/physics code to the GPU/
But this isn't a trivial task, and you cant do that on xbone. So you will have 2 different versions of the game. One with CPU physics/AI and one with a GPU implementation.

I could see base consoles being hamstrung by the GPU and would expect them to stick to 30fps. I guess I'm more surprised they aren't putting in the extra work to include it for Scorpio and Pro. Maybe it's parity between base and updated consoles. Maybe they just don't have the time to implement it. Maybe the payoff isn't worth the effort. Still, sad to see the one thing that can help get around the CPU limitations in these machines is mostly ignored by 3rd parties.
The Hermit
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by TwitchZeezbruh

Yeah because when people buy the "Pro" console they don't want any advantages, lol.

He means gameplay advantage, which is completely fine actually.

Blame the PS4, not the pro.
Fisty
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bringer Of Bacon

Can they also explain why the game looks identical to D1 but had a 2 behind it?

Probably because they spent most of their time on getting a new engine/pipeline ready and have reused lots of assets from 1. I would assume their number one goal with 2 is to be able to test and iterate much more rapidly so that content drops won't be so spaced apart
Lanrutcon
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hux1ey

CPU is much more of a factor in getting high framerate.

At least where PCs are concerned: this is not true.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(05-19-2017, 06:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bringer Of Bacon

Can they also explain why the game looks identical to D1 but had a 2 behind it?

It doesn't. Materials are improved, particles are improved, lighting is improved, shadows are improved, post processing is improved, weather effects are in, and environments are larger.
Soph
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:19 PM)
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It's time to let the Playstation brand go for Bungie, PS4 just isn't powerful enough.

Scorpio is where it's at, even the new Knack will probably go to Scorpio
Space_nut
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by RdN

Both the Pro and Scorpio don't have the horse power to handle [email protected]

The sooner people in here realize this, the better.

Bring on Forza 7

4k, 60fps, ultra settings, 4k textures, highest lod car models, mmmmmmmmm
Last edited by Space_nut; 05-19-2017 at 06:34 PM.
Psychoward
McLovin
(05-19-2017, 06:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Soph

It's time to let the Playstation brand go for Bungie, PS4 just isn't powerful enough.

Scorpio is where it's at, even the new Knack will probably go to Scorpio

GlamFM
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fisty

He's talking about CPU speed



Yeah let's not forget that Bungie has to give Acti a HUGE amount of shares in the company if they don't hit in 2017. They don't have an extra 3 months to iron out a locked 60

Pretty sure this turned out to be BS.
Piggus
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:23 PM)
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Oh joy, flashbacks to 2013 when people who don't know anything about hardware bottlenecks freak out about hardware bottlenecks.

Originally Posted by hanspampel

when 1080p on the ps4 cpu is enough for 30fps
why is the ps4 pro cpu also just good enough for 30fps, while being 30% more powerful

or lets talk about Scorpio 44% stronger than the ps4 cpu




i know it's the combination about gpu and cpu and 1080p/60fps should be perfectly achievable - that's my point

A slight clock improvement in CPU speed isn't going to double the framerate. The overhead would already have to be extremely high for 60 fps to be even remotely possible.

Originally Posted by Alienous

If it doesn't achieve 60fps on PS4 Pro I wonder if Sony will flex any muscle to keep that the same on Scorpio.

Why do people think companies do this? We know the Scorpio has a weaksauce CPU just like the PS4 pro. If it's not 60 fps on Scorpio (hint: it won't be), then that will be the reason.
Last edited by Piggus; 05-19-2017 at 06:26 PM.
Kickz
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:23 PM)
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Scorpio 60 fps ftw
AstroNut325
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Costia

He is talking about GPGPU.
I think the implication is that if physics and AI running on CPU is the problem, and they have spare GPU power, they could port some of the heavy AI/physics code to the GPU/
But this isn't a trivial task, and you cant do that on xbone. So you will have 2 different versions of the game. One with CPU physics/AI and one with a GPU implementation.

This, plus their contractual obligations to meet deadlines this year or lose a lot of stuff. I think, Activision would seize the shares or something.
Gator86
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Soph

It's time to let the Playstation brand go for Bungie, PS4 just isn't powerful enough.

Scorpio is where it's at, even the new Knack will probably go to Scorpio

This is good.
TheLover
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bringer Of Bacon

Can they also explain why the game looks identical to D1 but had a 2 behind it?

Well it doesn't so they don't need to explain.
Beer Monkey
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:25 PM)

Originally Posted by SapientWolf

If there aren't any dedicated server then all the physics are being calculated on netbook grade CPUs.

This. The real reason is not using dedicated servers.
RichiRamjag
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Psychoward

Haha. This thread is wild.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bringer Of Bacon

Can they also explain why the game looks identical to D1 but had a 2 behind it?

I dont get posts like these.... I just don't. Destiny 2 looks like a new title. It's clear as day.
Sword Of Doom
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:28 PM)
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Wasnt the same game running on last gen consoles with the same systems? Im being very reductive but it's hard to believe the PS4 Pro and Scorpio can't handle the game at 60fps
Kaako
Felium Defensor
(05-19-2017, 06:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Soph

It's time to let the Playstation brand go for Bungie, PS4 just isn't powerful enough.

Scorpio is where it's at, even the new Knack will probably go to Scorpio

Yes bro, someone gotta let Activision/Bungie know to get with the times and develop for actual current gen hardware(Scorpio/PC) as compared to last gen tech(PS4/pro/switch). Imagine the graphics and the amount of tiny particle effects if this was made for Scorpio as baseline. Blinding.
daveo42
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Soph

It's time to let the Playstation brand go for Bungie, PS4 just isn't powerful enough.

Scorpio is where it's at, even the new Knack will probably go to Scorpio

Please note that Gaming Jesus using an Xbox controller, meaning it is the superior console
Quonny
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Soph

It's time to let the Playstation brand go for Bungie, PS4 just isn't powerful enough.

Scorpio is where it's at, even the new Knack will probably go to Scorpio

Finally someone talks some sense. About time Sony went third party.
duhmetree
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:31 PM)
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Why can't I play at 900p/60 (or 720/60 on og consoles) with less detail in PvP? Give me the option
Hux1ey
Banned
(05-19-2017, 06:31 PM)

Originally Posted by Kickz

Scorpio 60 fps ftw

A new meme I guess?

Originally Posted by Space_nut

Bring on Forza 7

4k, 60fps, ultra settings, 4k textures, hugest lod car models, mmmmmmmmm

pfft 240fps or bust.
Tagyhag
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sword Of Doom

Wasnt the same game running on last gen consoles with the same systems? Im being very reductive but it's hard to believe the PS4 Pro and Scorpio can't handle the game at 60fps

No it wasn't.

People are assuming that the game's "worlds" are going to be exactly the same size as the first game and have nothing changed.

They have clearly said it's going to be a night and day difference.

Whether that is true remains to be seen, but if it is, people should understand why the CPU is being more taxed in this game than the first.
Blinck
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:31 PM)
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Why do they have to explain it? Were people expecting it to run at 60?

I really don't understand. Most console games are 30fps including Destiny
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(05-19-2017, 06:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by duhmetree

Why can't I play at 900p/60 (or 720/60 of og consoles) with less detail in PvP? Give me the option

Because resolution doesn't impact CPU load, which is the bottleneck.
Space_nut
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sword Of Doom

Wasnt the same game running on last gen consoles with the same systems? Im being very reductive but it's hard to believe the PS4 Pro and Scorpio can't handle the game at 60fps

Lol yup destiny 1 AI and all ran fine on the 360/PS3 CPU. They have no reason technically to get it to run 60fps just facts
PeakPointMatrix
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:33 PM)
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I have a feeling they'll be singing a different tune for Scorpio...

Originally Posted by MegaSackman

People really think the guy is lying?

It's GAF. Signing up gets you an arm chair developer degree.
Piggus
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sword Of Doom

Wasnt the same game running on last gen consoles with the same systems? Im being very reductive but it's hard to believe the PS4 Pro and Scorpio can't handle the game at 60fps

Why is that hard to believe? The Pro and Scorpio CPUs are a very small upgrade over the base systems, regardless of what bullshit buzzwords and jargon Microsoft uses to dupe people into thinking otherwise. You can't really compare it to the last-gen version either, since the CPU-bound effects and systems in place are less advanced/lower fidelity on the older hardware.

Originally Posted by Space_nut

Lol yup destiny 1 AI and all ran fine on the 360/PS3 CPU. They have no reason technically to get it to run 60fps just facts

Please tell us more about how CPU-bound effects like shadow draw calls are exactly the same on PS3/360.
iRAWRasaurus
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sword Of Doom

Wasnt the same game running on last gen consoles with the same systems? Im being very reductive but it's hard to believe the PS4 Pro and Scorpio can't handle the game at 60fps

Well i am sure the pro and Scorpio can run 60 fps at 1080p however I know Sony doesn't want games to run 60 fps if the basic PS4 can't run 60 fps. So scale down to the lowest common denominator in a sense.
Hux1ey
Banned
(05-19-2017, 06:33 PM)

Originally Posted by Space_nut

Lol yup destiny 1 AI and all ran fine on the 360/PS3 CPU. They have no reason technically to get it to run 60fps just facts

No, not facts. Only the devs know.
duhmetree
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by RoboPlato

Because resolution doesn't impact CPU load, which is the bottleneck.

They could use the GPU to take certain loads off of the CPU

Has Sony ever sent the ICE team to a 3rd party?
Space_nut
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hux1ey

No, not facts. Only the devs know.

Ok you're right. I'll call it my hypothesis
Piggus
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by duhmetree

They could use the GPU to take certain loads off of the CPU

Has Sony ever sent the ICE team to a 3rd party?

It has been explained that this is not a trivial task for such a large multiplatform game, the the Bone GPU isn't very well suited fore GPU compute.

Originally Posted by iRAWRasaurus

Well i am sure the pro and Scorpio can run 60 fps at 1080p however I know Sony doesn't want games to run 60 fps if the basic PS4 can't run 60 fps. So scale down to the lowest common denominator in a sense.

Why would they run at 60 fps at 1080p? Resolution has very little impact on CPU performance. This is not a GPU-bound game.
Drewboy64
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 06:38 PM)
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Considering Destiny 1 feels fantastic at 30 fps, this is one of the last things I'm worried about. Maybe that's because I only care about PVE, though? I'd rather them focus on problems like linear and recycled mechanics (scan X, defend your ghost) and the story (which, to be fair, they seem to be doing), and the boring playspaces (which they seem to be doing)
i-Lo
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(05-19-2017, 06:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by RoboPlato

It doesn't. Materials are improved, particles are improved, lighting is improved, shadows are improved, post processing is improved, weather effects are in, and environments are larger.

Looking at more gameplay today, I can honestly say that there is definitely a difference. However, it is smaller than what I expected esp. for a 30fps title. However, the art direction and atmosphere were selling points for the first one. The expansion in scope of interactivity and dynamic levels are the ones that immediately become apparent.

And truthfully, Bungie's biggest failing lies with story. I and plenty others were left unsatisfied with the content that the game called a campaign, especially, after Bungie said they Destiny was aiming to be the SW of video gaming.

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