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Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
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(05-19-2017, 06:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by MegaSackman

People really think the guy is lying?

Not really but how come it can't run 60 fps on the Pro when Halo 5 can run 60 fps on X1? I don't get it... it's a similar concept.
Sword Of Doom
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(05-19-2017, 06:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Piggus

Why is that hard to believe? The Pro and Scorpio CPUs are a very small upgrade over the base systems, regardless of what bullshit buzzwords and jargon Microsoft uses to dupe people into thinking otherwise. You can't really compare it to the last-gen version either, since the CPU-bound effects and systems in place are less advanced/lower fidelity on the older hardware.



Please tell us more about how CPU-bound effects like shadow draw calls are exactly the same on PS3/360.

Because Luke Smith did not mention "effects". He specifically said "physics simulation of players colliding" and something about the network. And my immediate thought is that those same collisions and simulations were being performed on the PS3/360. So naturally I assume no matter how crappy the cpu's on the new consoles are, they have to be significantly more powerful than what was on the PS3/360.

Like I said, it's very reductive but it's a thought
Kyoufu
(05-19-2017, 06:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lunafreya Nox Fleuret

Not really but how come it can't run 60 fps on the Pro when Halo 5 can run 60 fps on X1? I don't get it... it's a similar concept.

They made huge sacrifices to get Halo 5 running at 60fps. You should check out the Digital Foundry video on it.
AngelOFDeath
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(05-19-2017, 06:41 PM)
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Parity within the same environment no? It is because they don't want to create a disadvantage. The majority of gamers play on the base console of both brands. They would not stiff the customers because a small percentage are hardcore enough to get the higher end model.

I think its more than holding back IQ in the base models so that they can do 60, its the entire engine. I mean hell I could be wrong with my statement, but is there any MP game that runs at a higher framerate on Pro vs Base?
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(05-19-2017, 06:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by duhmetree

They could use the GPU to take certain loads off of the CPU

Has Sony ever sent the ICE team to a 3rd party?

You can't move everything over to the GPU from CPU. It can help for some simulation based tasks but networking and other processes still require the CPU in most cases.
AmyS
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:42 PM)
I cannot wait (although I can wait) for PlayStation 5 and Xbox Two to have 12 core Zen 2 @ 3+ Ghz clockspeeds

Just think, we're now about half way through the current generation, so another 3 and a half years of Jaguar. Even Scorpio uses a highly custom Jaguar.
THE:MILKMAN
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(05-19-2017, 06:42 PM)
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How confident can we be that the PS5/Xbox Next won't suffer a similar problem with the CPU?

Sure I don't think it will be quite as bad as Jaguar by default but I'm fairly sure they will get 8 core (or more) Ryzen Mobile cores and combined with a 10-15TF GPU will see similar issues?
iRAWRasaurus
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(05-19-2017, 06:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by AngelOFDeath

Parity within the same environment no? It is because they don't want to create a disadvantage. The majority of gamers play on the base console of both brands. They would not stiff the customers because a small percentage are hardcore enough to get the higher end model.

I think its more than holding back IQ in the base models so that they can do 60, its the entire engine. I mean hell I could be wrong with my statement, but is there any MP game that runs at a higher framerate on Pro vs Base?

Battlefield 1 on the pro runs at a smoother and constant (for the majority of the time) 60 fps at 1080p. The frame rate on the base PS4 is unstable and can dip to ~high 40s and 50s.
wesleyshark
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(05-19-2017, 06:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Equanimity

I am satisfied with his explanation. Destiny controlled exceptionally well for a 30fps FPS title.

Agreed
grfunkulus
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 06:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by LukasTaves

Halo 5 uses dynamic res ranging mostly from 900p to 1080p.

And it looks no worse than other 60fps,at least not the ones that actually try to hit that and not just the ones that goes from 40-60

it looks worse than all the recent CODs which have higher player counts. It also looks basically last gen next to battlefront and battlefield which, if they maintained the same player count/map size as Halo, would be much closer to 60 locked.

Have you SEEN the BTB efforts in Halo 5? I know these are mostly forge but holy crap did the team have different priorities than making an appealing looking game. I'd argue that H5 is one of the most unattractive multiplayer packages from a visual perspective of any major release this gen.

As a big halo fan (EVEN 343 halo fan), I was incredibly underwhelmed by the visuals (excluding one or two levels from campaign--the elite home world mainly)
Stormhammer
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(05-19-2017, 06:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lunafreya Nox Fleuret

Not really but how come it can't run 60 fps on the Pro when Halo 5 can run 60 fps on X1? I don't get it... it's a similar concept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gQMulb6T2o digital foundry's halo 5 video on 60fps.

imo, maybe bungie doesn't want to implement all of these tricks or maybe there's more to it than that
Noobcraft
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:43 PM)
Halo 5 Warzone could run at 1080p/60 fps on the standard Xbox One, with numerous physics based vehicles, dozens of enemies, particle effects, and multiple players. Are 343i just CPU wizards?

Piggus
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(05-19-2017, 06:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sword Of Doom

Because Luke Smith did not mention "effects". He specifically said "physics simulation of players colliding" and something about the network. And my immediate thought is that those same collisions and simulations were being performed on the PS3/360. So naturally I assume no matter how crappy the cpu's on the new consoles are, they have to be significantly more powerful than what was on the PS3/360.

Like I said, it's very reductive but it's a thought

Well, just know that there is far more going on with the CPU than just collision detection and physics. The devs were just giving those two things as an example. The PS4 and Bone CPU isn't really a huge upgrade over Cell and Xenos either way.
SillyNonsense
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(05-19-2017, 06:44 PM)
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I see other games pulling off more impressive results at higher framerates even in large areas with a lot of players and AI, so I'm not all that thrilled about this reply. Especially considering that even 4v4 multiplayer in limited arenas is locked to 30. I'm thinking they're still using a lot of old code from D1.

I'd like it if the game had a 4k/30 or 1080/60 option for Pro users in 'campaign.' Multi should just be 60 for all regardless. A small 4v4 should not be that demanding unless they're simply not using the provided power efficiently. Drop whatever effects necessary to get there for MP.
Last edited by SillyNonsense; 05-20-2017 at 02:04 AM.
OttoSporteman
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(05-19-2017, 06:45 PM)
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Honest question: is it native 4k or checkerboard on PS4 Pro?
duhmetree
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(05-19-2017, 06:45 PM)
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So, I'll be buying a PS4Pro2 in 2018 with a zen cpu or building a gaming PC.
Demicore
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(05-19-2017, 06:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by spectator

Generic Bungie interview template:


Q: Will this game have ____ ?


A: We hear players who have been asking that. We totally understand and it's really important to us. We're constantly asking ourselves the question of whether we can have ____ .

Also, no.

LOL

Brutal, but true. I feel these guys are making a lot of unforced errors.
ScaryShark
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(05-19-2017, 06:46 PM)
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People 'coped' with 30 for years with original Destiny because it was so rock solid. I think everyone that plays it on console will be just fine again.

It'd be better if it was 60 and I have my doubts the game couldn't run at 60 if they were actually shooting for it (with compromises in other areas) but it's really not a big deal.
Forsaken82
(05-19-2017, 06:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by SillyNonsense

I see other games pulling off more impressive results at higher framerates even in large areas with a lot of players and AI, so I'm not all that thrilled about this reply. Especially considering that even 4v4 multiplayer is locked to 30. I'm thinking they're still using a lot of old code from D1.

I'd like it if the game had a 4k/30 or 1080/60 option for Pro users in 'campaign.' Multi should just be 60 for all.

This isn't how game development works... You can't just drop the resolution and magically get 60 FPS.
Raide
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(05-19-2017, 06:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by OttoSporteman

Honest question: is it native 4k or checkerboard on PS4 Pro?

Probably checkerboard, but who knows!
TheLover
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(05-19-2017, 06:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Noobcraft

Halo 5 Warzone could run at 1080p/60 fps on the standard Xbox One, with numerous physics based vehicles, dozens of enemies, particle effects, and multiple players. Are 343i just CPU wizards?

B U L L S H I T

that game rarely touches 1080p and I'd wager Warzone and large format game types drop that resolution between 720p and 900p.

Game can be blurry at times
Last edited by TheLover; 05-19-2017 at 06:49 PM.
Piggus
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(05-19-2017, 06:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by SillyNonsense

I see other games pulling off more impressive results at higher framerates even in large areas with a lot of players and AI, so I'm not all that thrilled about this reply. Especially considering that even 4v4 multiplayer is locked to 30. I'm thinking they're still using a lot of old code from D1.

I'd like it if the game had a 4k/30 or 1080/60 option for Pro users in 'campaign.' Multi should just be 60 for all.

Once again, resolution is irrelevant for games that are limited by the CPU. Running the game at 1080p rather than 4k just shifts the bottleneck from the GPU to the CPU.
icecold1983
Banned
(05-19-2017, 06:47 PM)
destiny has a rich physics simulation? what complex physical iterations are going on in destiny but not battlefield?
JareBear
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(05-19-2017, 06:47 PM)
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30 fps really isn't an issue with proper frame pacing and input latency. If it's rock solid on those fronts, with no dips below 30 whatsoever, we are gonna be fine
Costia
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(05-19-2017, 06:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by AmyS

I cannot wait (although I can wait) for PlayStation 5 and Xbox Two to have 12 core Zen 2 @ 3+ Ghz clockspeeds
Just think, we're now about half way through the current generation, so another 3 and a half years of Jaguar. Even Scorpio uses a highly custom Jaguar.

Originally Posted by THE:MILKMAN

How confident can we be that the PS5/Xbox Next won't suffer a similar problem with the CPU?
Sure I don't think it will be quite as bad as Jaguar by default but I'm fairly sure they will get 8 core (or more) Ryzen Mobile cores and combined with a 10-15TF GPU will see similar issues?

AMD has good multi-threaded performance. But in general (true for Intel as well) single core performance hasn't improved much. And implementing multi-threaded algorithms is more complicated than single-threaded ones. (Edit: more complicated = more time and money. Looking at current game dev times and costs, that's a problem)
So it will still be up to the devs.
8k30 hype.
Last edited by Costia; 05-19-2017 at 06:50 PM.
AngelOFDeath
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(05-19-2017, 06:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by iRAWRasaurus

Battlefield 1 on the pro runs at a smoother and constant (for the majority of the time) 60 fps at 1080p. The frame rate on the base PS4 is unstable and can dip to ~high 40s and 50s.

Thanks. So even though Bungie is saying they can't do it on the Pro, its not impossible to say parity is not whats going on here.
Kthulhu
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(05-19-2017, 06:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spukc

NEXT GEN inspector gadget NEXT GEN!!!

Lol.
grfunkulus
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(05-19-2017, 06:48 PM)
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Back on topic, if Bungie is to be believed, and the CPU really is the hindrance to 60 fps gameplay, I wonder how my last gen laptop i7 (6700) will handle it combined with a 1060 3GB.

The 3GB doesn't handle anything over 1440p well, so I'd be happy if I can get close to that resolution with a stable 60 but the jury is definitely out on that. locked 30 on a Pro with near 4k might be the more consistent, pleasing package (even though I know my laptop is more powerful overall).
wonderful103
Member
(05-19-2017, 06:51 PM)

Originally Posted by grfunkulus

Back on topic, if Bungie is to be believed, and the CPU really is the hindrance to 60 fps gameplay, I wonder how my last gen laptop i7 (6700) will handle it combined with a 1060 3GB.

The 3GB doesn't handle anything over 1440p well, so I'd be happy if I can get close to that resolution with a stable 60 but the jury is definitely out on that. locked 30 on a Pro with near 4k might be the more consistent, pleasing package (even though I know my laptop is more powerful overall).

Your i7 will be fine. We're not talking netbook CPUs here like on consoles.
Piggus
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(05-19-2017, 06:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by grfunkulus

Back on topic, if Bungie is to be believed, and the CPU really is the hindrance to 60 fps gameplay, I wonder how my last gen laptop i7 (6700) will handle it combined with a 1060 3GB.

The 3GB doesn't handle anything over 1440p well, so I'd be happy if I can get close to that resolution with a stable 60 but the jury is definitely out on that. locked 30 on a Pro with near 4k might be the more consistent, pleasing package (even though I know my laptop is more powerful overall).

I think it will depend on whether or not the game makes good use of multithreading. If it's reliant on clock speeds like some games with poor threading, you might have issues. But I'd say there's a good chance that you'll hit 60 fps just fine.
JareBear
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(05-19-2017, 06:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by THE:MILKMAN

How confident can we be that the PS5/Xbox Next won't suffer a similar problem with the CPU?

Sure I don't think it will be quite as bad as Jaguar by default but I'm fairly sure they will get 8 core (or more) Ryzen Mobile cores and combined with a 10-15TF GPU will see similar issues?

My i7 CPU in my PC right now is exponentially more powerful than the Jaguars that these consoles use, and it's two years old. By the time next gen hits they can use chips similar to it that are more than capable of 4k/60 and take full advantage of SSD speeds. These chips are pretty cheap now and will be dirt cheap in 2 more years
Trace
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(05-19-2017, 06:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by grfunkulus

Back on topic, if Bungie is to be believed, and the CPU really is the hindrance to 60 fps gameplay, I wonder how my last gen laptop i7 (6700) will handle it combined with a 1060 3GB.

The 3GB doesn't handle anything over 1440p well, so I'd be happy if I can get close to that resolution with a stable 60 but the jury is definitely out on that. locked 30 on a Pro with near 4k might be the more consistent, pleasing package (even though I know my laptop is more powerful overall).

That CPU is probably 2-3x faster than the Pro CPU, so you should be fine.
prag16
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(05-19-2017, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by grfunkulus

Back on topic, if Bungie is to be believed, and the CPU really is the hindrance to 60 fps gameplay, I wonder how my last gen laptop i7 (6700) will handle it combined with a 1060 3GB.

The 3GB doesn't handle anything over 1440p well, so I'd be happy if I can get close to that resolution with a stable 60 but the jury is definitely out on that. locked 30 on a Pro with near 4k might be the more consistent, pleasing package (even though I know my laptop is more powerful overall).

Come on. An i5-2500k will outperform these console CPUs in the vast majority of gaming scenarios. Your i7 will be fine.
Tecnniqe
Would die a thousand deaths just for one gun
(05-19-2017, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Noobcraft

Halo 5 Warzone could run at 1080p/60 fps on the standard Xbox One, with numerous physics based vehicles, dozens of enemies, particle effects, and multiple players. Are 343i just CPU wizards?

343i came from the moon
grfunkulus
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 06:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Piggus

I think it will depend on whether or not the game makes good use of multithreading. If it's reliant on clock speeds like some games with poor threading, you might have issues. But I'd say there's a good chance that you'll hit 60 fps just fine.

Granted, like the previous poster sad, it's a laptop CPU but at least not a crappy netbook equivalent one like the consoles. Then again, I learned how highly demanding CPU games could crap out on my config when I played Watchdogs 2 on it. I think that may have just been a case of that game not really being designed for 60fps (it DID make excellent use of multithreading from what I remember reading too--I just didn't have the CPU muscle, or VRAM)
Costia
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(05-19-2017, 06:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Piggus

I think it will depend on whether or not the game makes good use of multithreading. If it's reliant on clock speeds like some games with poor threading, you might have issues. But I'd say there's a good chance that you'll hit 60 fps just fine.

Do laptops have thermal problems today?
I never had a gaming laptop, and still it always throttles to a lower clock speed after a while when the CPU gets hot.
silver.tongue
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(05-19-2017, 06:58 PM)
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I'm fine with it...
SmoothRunningGun
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(05-19-2017, 07:00 PM)

Originally Posted by TwitchZeezbruh

I 100% believe they could get to 60 with a decent amount of engineering effort, but decided to spend it on other things. Bungie's priorities :(

You can speculate this but unless you're looking at their code you don't know.
Sword Of Doom
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(05-19-2017, 07:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by AngelOFDeath

Thanks. So even though Bungie is saying they can't do it on the Pro, its not impossible to say parity is not whats going on here.

If BF1 was locked at 30, then the pro version would have to be also. Since BF1 has an unlocked frame rate and is aiming for 60 on the base PS4, then the pro can be a steadier 60fps. The issue is that if a MP game is targeting 30fps on the base PS4, then the pro version can't aim for 60
grfunkulus
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 07:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

343i came from the moon

Originally Posted by Costia

Do laptops have thermal problems today?
I never had a gaming laptop, and still it always throttles to a lower clock speed after a while when the CPU gets hot.

Well I cheaped out and bought the least expensive MSI. Reviews say it throttles somewhat (it's a slim/pretty light build--also has power supply issues where it doesn't get enough juice and sometimes causes hitching...regret that purchase). Even the more expensive configs throttle a bit if they're slim builds (like the Stealth line), from what I read at the time.
iRAWRasaurus
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(05-19-2017, 07:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sword Of Doom

If BF1 was locked at 30, then the pro version would have to be also. Since BF1 has an unlocked frame rate and is aiming for 60 on the base PS4, then the pro can be a steadier 60fps. The issue is that if a MP game is targeting 30fps on the base PS4, then the pro version can't aim for 60

Yep yep.
Sword Of Doom
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(05-19-2017, 07:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Noobcraft

Halo 5 Warzone could run at 1080p/60 fps on the standard Xbox One, with numerous physics based vehicles, dozens of enemies, particle effects, and multiple players. Are 343i just CPU wizards?

I haven't played Halo 5 but that gif looks so similar to Destiny
Tecnniqe
Would die a thousand deaths just for one gun
(05-19-2017, 07:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sword Of Doom

If BF1 was locked at 30, then the pro version would have to be also. Since BF1 has an unlocked frame rate and is aiming for 60 on the base PS4, then the pro can be a steadier 60fps. The issue is that if a MP game is targeting 30fps on the base PS4, then the pro version can't aim for 60

Factually untrue.

There are online games running at different frame rates between normal and pro already.
cakely
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(05-19-2017, 07:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by iRAWRasaurus

Battlefield 1 on the pro runs at a smoother and constant (for the majority of the time) 60 fps at 1080p. The frame rate on the base PS4 is unstable and can dip to ~high 40s and 50s.

Both versions of Battlefield 1 have the same target: 60fps.

The PlayStation Pro version hits it and the base version falls quite a bit short.
LegitMcfalls
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(05-19-2017, 07:04 PM)
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I imagine bungie tried to get it 60fps standard accross all platforms but if they couldnt lock at it 60 fps for either console, the next step is to lock it at 30.

I much prefer any game at a locked frame rate over any that fluctuates.
JareBear
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(05-19-2017, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sword Of Doom

The issue is that if a MP game is targeting 30fps on the base PS4, then the pro version can't aim for 60

This is a myth from pre-Pro Launch that has been disproven numerous times already
Insane Metal
Dispensed Internet Salt
(05-19-2017, 07:07 PM)
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Jaguar strikes again. This CPU absolutely SUCKS. This single thing handicapped this generation so much :(
iRAWRasaurus
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(05-19-2017, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by cakely

Both versions of Battlefield 1 have the same target: 60fps.

The PlayStation Pro version hits it and the base version falls quite a bit short.

Yeah, the question was if there was any MP game that runs at a higher framerate on Pro vs Base? I answered it. Perhaps I should have mention the target fps for the base PS4 is 60 fps. It doesn't stay constant 60 fps on the base ps4 however with fps drops depending on the situation. It's more constant 60 fps on the PS4 pro.
Bold One
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(05-19-2017, 07:09 PM)
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Means that engine is still dogshit.

4v4 no destruction or environmental complexity. At 30 when every other mp shooter is at 60. That's apple levels of douchebaggery.
cakely
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(05-19-2017, 07:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

Factually untrue.

There are online games running at different frame rates between normal and pro already.

Originally Posted by JareBear

This is a myth from pre-Pro Launch that has been disproven numerous times already

Which competitive multiplayer games are you referring to that target different frame rates between the different versions of the PS4? I'm not aware that there are any.

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