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Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
(01-28-2017, 04:09 PM)
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I love love LOVED Mass Effect 1 and 2 but no, Bioware has gone to the shitter in the last 5 years and they bled all their talent. Current Bioware is a husk of its former self.



Also,

Gravity Rush 2 got robbed
Resident Evil 7 got robbed
Yakuza 0 got robbed
NiOh got robbed
Horizion Zero Dawn got robbed
Nier Automata got robbed
Zelda Breath of the Wild got robbed
Persona 5 got robbed
Prey got robbed

I could go on but these are just some single player titles to release now / in the next few months all with a single player focus.
Necron
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:11 PM)
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What is all this talk about a decline of singleplayer games? That's just untrue... or are these just simply alternative facts?
Xumbrega
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:12 PM)
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I don't get it why GAF seems to hate Mass Effect Andromeda already.. did I miss something?
Ridesh
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Xumbrega

I don't get it why GAF seems to hate Mass Effect Andromeda already.. did I miss something?

DA2, ME3 ending a DAI.
dmaul1114
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:13 PM)

Originally Posted by Anderson DL

lol, as a fellow aging misanthrope, I get you. However, I have to point out that you're sort of contradicting yourself -- you say you don't give a fuck what others think, but then go on to say you want to leave because others' opinions annoy you. Maybe apply the first to the second?

Lol. Yeah I didn't communicate that well. I meant that I don't care to discuss opinions on banal things like games, movies etc. with others anymore. No one's influencing or changing my opinions on silly hobby things, nor am I going to change anyone's (nor do I care to anymore).

I'm just going to limit my posting to industry news stuff and any game-related posting to OTs/community threads. It is fun reading and posting as people are playing through games "together." I'll just stay out of preview and review threads that are just bickering over opinions.
Buggy Loop
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:14 PM)
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Let's face it

The real "important" game for giving us a good narrative (not those one liners), sci-fi setting and epic scale is Torment Tides of numenera. Even more important as it's part of the revival of the CRPG genre on PC. "Important" for AAA sequels with a new coat of paint is an oxymoron.
StereoVsn
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mass Effect

I bet you that Andromeda will at least be the most divisive game of the year for sure.

1. We can at least make the argument that linear, story-driven games seem to be on the decline, at least going by sales of certain titles. Look at Quantum Break, Dishonored 2, and Deus Ex as examples.

2. Who knows at this point? Was it good in Inquisition? For all the problems with ME3, it at least had quality character interactions.

3. Once again, who knows? I'm going to go with probably not.

I just don't know about item 2. I did like some of the characters in DAI and certainly ME3 had decent character interactions. However I am just not feeling MEA so far.

Maybe it's just terrible marketing. I am hopeful it's just that and the game itself is going to be amazing. However all the streamlining toward it being even more a shooter vs ME3 is disappointing (3 active skills, even faster combat, less squad direction, etc).

I will definitely get the game one way or another. It's just I see myself much more likely getting this game in a year for after release for $20 on a big sale if it turns out to be DAI x CoD in space. If I am wrong and the impressions and reviews are great I will get it a few days post release but I am pessimistic on that count.
Last edited by StereoVsn; 01-28-2017 at 05:24 PM.
Coffinhal
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:15 PM)
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Clickbait title (and thread) about a game that nobody played and about a year that just started...
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
(01-28-2017, 04:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Xumbrega

I don't get it why GAF seems to hate Mass Effect Andromeda already.. did I miss something?


Man-is-Obsolete
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Xumbrega

I don't get it why GAF seems to hate Mass Effect Andromeda already.. did I miss something?

The trailers have not looked great.
JamesHolden
Junior Member
(01-28-2017, 04:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Anderson DL

Sounds like you're taking it literally. Are you not familiar with the saying? Perhaps it's an idiomatic thing. "Designed by a committee" is a way of saying that something has suffered from being passed through too many administrative layers. Everyone is familiar with how committees can suck the life out of things, particularly artistic projects. "A camel is a horse designed by a committee" is an old saying. When people say the game has been "focus-tested to death," they're saying something similar.

It's a lazy one line critique that doesn't offer any substance and just states a feeling. I'd argue at least some of the foundation of the critique is that its EA, so of course, committee. When the ME3 Ending wasn't focus tested enough, people are pissed. When the characters of Andromeda were released, apparently if they don't appeal to your specific personality, it's obviously because the creatives were hamstrung by administrators. Maybe the creatives just didn't create your game?
dmaul1114
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:17 PM)

Originally Posted by Necron

What is all this talk about a decline of singleplayer games? That's just untrue... or are these just simply alternative facts?

As someone else noted, there does seems to be a decline in linear, story-driven games with things like Dishonored 2, Quantum Break, Deus Ex etc. not selling well and reducing the likelihood of getting sequels or publishers giving big budget to such games.

Even more so to "epic" games like Mass Effect, Witcher 3 etc. that are long and content filled, no top of having top graphics, tons of voice acting etc.

Those games are kind of few and far between compared to MP games, open wold games with lacking stories (Witcher 3 is huge exception to the rule there), more gameplay focused SP games etc.

So there's plenty of SP games, but not so many epic, story-driven games which is what the article was saying.
Philippo
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:17 PM)
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Disagree on the first point (Horizon, FFXV, Zelda BotW, Ni No Kuni 2 etc. say hello), agree on the second, the idea of exploration in a completely uncharted galaxy is really appealing.
Shadowhelper
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:18 PM)
Basically you could make a case for it being the most unique or best AAA title, from that case, but just because it is uniquely visionary doesn't meant it's the most important. Is it even close to the most influential?
semiconscious
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:21 PM)
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But most of all, the reason Andromeda is an important game, is that it's hopeful. For the last few years, most big sci-fi titles have been about withdrawal and attrition: Gears of War, Halo, Killzone, Destiny, Titanfall – they depict humanity on the back foot, always struggling to survive in smaller and smaller spaces. Andromeda on the other hand is about exploration and expansion. In many ways it harks back to the great science fiction novels of the Fifties and Sixties from the likes of Asimov, Heinlein and Clarke in which gigantic spacecraft vanish along glittering hyperspace lanes to distant galaxies; where alien worlds are discovered and colonized, against the odds.

not really clear as to why this '50's version of 'hopeful' (as in, hopeful for this very selective group of humanity that gets to do fun stuff) is 'important' right now. 'important' in the sense that it's as equally delusional as all the other elements of elon musk's basket of '50's re-incarnated high-tech wet dreams, maybe? :) ...
Anderson DL
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(01-28-2017, 04:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mass Effect

1. We can at least make the argument that linear, story-driven games seem to be on the decline, at least going by sales of certain titles. Look at Quantum Break, Dishonored 2, and Deus Ex as examples.

Originally Posted by Necron

What is all this talk about a decline of singleplayer games? That's just untrue... or are these just simply alternative facts?

Our resident NPD analyst, Matt P., was instructive on this. What he said is becoming increasingly untenable are the AAA, massive-budget, 3-to-4-years-development, megatitles that are only SP. It is becoming very difficult for them to stay in the Top 10 long enough to earn their money back. Yes, there are exceptions, but that is the trend -- for that type of game.

However, that is only true for that type of game (AAA, massive-budget, long development, etc.). It is not true for other types of games -- moderate-budget games, games that are not trying to compete in the AAA space, do not need to stay in Top 10 for a long while to be profitable. You see plenty of SP-focused games at that level (Q1 is full of them).
Anoxida
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Plum

That's fair enough, not sharing a common opinion here can be frustrating and if it gets to you there's no point staying. But that doesn't mean you should start making broad, sweeping statements and insulting people.



That post is followed by one saying just "The GAF Mass Effect hate is real!" Low-content posts with no follow up are done by everyone on all sides, it's no evidence of a conspiracy against Mass Effect or AAA games, just that you personally disagree with their opinion so, to you, it's an example of a 'drive-by shitpost'.

Where did I say that other guys post wasn't a shit post? :P Either way his post is a reaction to all the posts similar to the one I quoted. It wouldn't exist otherwise. Shit posting breeds more shit posting. Damn.
Robot Pants
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:24 PM)
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But Mac Walters is involved......
dmaul1114
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:24 PM)

Originally Posted by Buggy Loop

Let's face it

The real "important" game for giving us a good narrative (not those one liners), sci-fi setting and epic scale is Torment Tides of numenera. Even more important as it's part of the revival of the CRPG genre on PC. "Important" for AAA sequels with a new coat of paint is an oxymoron.

I won't get into what's "important" but I won't play Torment as I hated Pillars of Eternity and CRPGs in general.

I like games like Mass Effect, Witcher 3, DA:I etc. as they're relatively simple mechanically, pretty easy in the combat and I can just focus on the story, character interactions, questing, exploring the world etc. that I enjoy and not get overwhelmed by mechanics, frustrated by difficult combat that requires strategy.

I play games to veg out, relax and get lost in a virtual world that's for more immersive than movies or books for me (though I love those as well). After taxing my brain at work all day/week the last thing I want to do most days is have to learn complicated mechanics, put a lot of though and strategy into combat or puzzles etc. I'm having that issue with RE7 now as I love the atmosphere and setting but hate having to worry over ammo and health packs etc. and wish I'd played on easy (too far in to restart now).

Hell, I'd love to see a game like ME evolve to be basically a huge budget visual knowledge where it's all exploring and building relationships and partnerships, negotiating treaties etc. that determines the outcomes of the war etc. Most games I'm just putting up with the combat to see through the story and character development anyway. At least in things like ME, DA, Witcher 3 the combat is pretty brain dead, and can just drop difficulty for any battles that give me trouble so I can keep pressing on.
Scrotum Phillips
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:25 PM)
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Man, sure seems like much of GAF is lining up to hate on this game. For better or worse, very little is known about this game. We've mostly seen glimpses of characters/combat/locations of most likely a 25+ hour game and people have been making very broad conclusions about the game already.

This game could bomb, sure, and calling it the "most important" in a year of huge games of course will have much disagreement. I just wish people would pump their brakes a bit here. It just seems people are going to lose their shit everytime there's a wonky animation or some cornball line is said when that's only a fraction of what the game hopefully offers.

I'm just really hopeful that this is coming out 5ish years after the last one (lots of development time), and it is hopefully learning from some of the mistakes of the last trilogy. I HOPE they now have a better understanding of what worked in the last trilogy and planning better ahead for future games.
LeleSocho
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:26 PM)
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It's not even close to being the most important game of the year.
There are single player only game that are much bigger and more important this year, some have been released already... what the heck were they thinking with this article?
LordOcidax
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:26 PM)
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Not even top 3.
dmaul1114
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:27 PM)

Originally Posted by Anderson DL

Our resident NPD analyst, Matt P., was instructive on this. What he said is becoming increasingly untenable are the AAA, massive-budget, 3-to-4-years-development, megatitles that are only SP. It is becoming very difficult for them to stay in the Top 10 long enough to earn their money back. Yes, there are exceptions, but that is the trend -- for that type of game.

However, that is only true for that type of game (AAA, massive-budget, long development, etc.). It is not true for other types of games -- moderate-budget games, games that are not trying to compete in the AAA space, do not need to stay in Top 10 for a long while to be profitable. You see plenty of SP-focused games at that level (Q1 is full of them).

Very much this. And it sucks for those of us that love these epic, story driven, cinematic games like ME and what not. The story telling, cinematic experience etc. just isn't the same with lower budgets meaning lesser graphics and production values, less and/or worse voice acting, shorter games leaving less time for plot and character development, more time on gameplay that I often don't enjoy and less on story and characters etc.
Pacotez
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:29 PM)

Originally Posted by Anoxida

The amount of people who decided/assumes ME: Andromeda is shit on GAF before even playing it is astounding. Drive by posts everywhere. It's an opinion piece people, not someone trying to state a fact.

"You haven't played the game" is the worst defense there is, specially when it's about to the fourth installment in a franchise
tearsintherain
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:30 PM)
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I look forward to ME4 and really hope it doesn't suck but holy hyperbole, MOST IMPORTANT? Hell no, and thats speaking as someone who is a huge mass effect fan and has bought hundreds of $ worth of tchotchkes and swag.

For better or worse Bioware has sort of left the ME franchise to rot. Maybe if they had released a remaster of ME1-3 more people would be excited to revisit the universe, but a ton of people have never played the series now and of the people who have its been years.

Horizon Zero Dawn, Zelda, maybe RDR2, South Park, Uncharted DLC, Sea of Thieves, KH 3 are all games I think that are going to be viewed as much bigger ultimately. I really, really look forward to CDPR (Witcher 3) Cyberpunk game reveal but thats probably 2018+.

And ME3 does deserve to be assumed to be awful based on the track record of ME3 and Dragon Age Inquisition. Its simply the track record. I really, really hope it is good and have it pre ordered already but my expectations are in check.

I understand the "$100m+ SP games future is riding on ME:A" but really the Bioware track record taints the sales imo. Horizon Zero Dawn, TLOU2, Days Gone, etc are gonna be better indicators for the industry.
Last edited by tearsintherain; 01-28-2017 at 04:32 PM.
Anderson DL
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(01-28-2017, 04:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by JamesHolden

It's a lazy one line critique that doesn't offer any substance and just states a feeling. I'd argue at least some of the foundation of the critique is that its EA, so of course, committee. When the ME3 Ending wasn't focus tested enough, people are pissed. When the characters of Andromeda were released, apparently if they don't appeal to your specific personality, it's obviously because the creatives were hamstrung by administrators. Maybe the creatives just didn't create your game?

I'm not really sure what your point is.
Ridesh
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(01-28-2017, 04:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pacotez

"You haven't played the game" is the worst defense there is, specially when it's about to the fourth installment in a franchise

... what the fuck?
Ryuuga
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(01-28-2017, 04:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by ironcreed

I hope you are not suggesting that Mass Effect Andromeda will be on that level of stank. If so, could you please pass me some of what you are smoking? Must be some good shit.

I'm trying to say neither are important. The assertion that ME is important because it's filling some void reminds me of the discussion surrounding NMS before it's launch regarding sci-fi games. It's an opinion, just one I find odd. Personally, I think Andromeda will be alright though I have no vested interest in the franchise.
JamesHolden
Junior Member
(01-28-2017, 04:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Anderson DL

I'm not really sure what your point is.

Complaining about a AAA game because it's made like a AAA game is asinine. If you hate AAA games because of committees and focus groups, then you pretty much hate AAA games, so what value is your opinion on AAA games if that is your baseline.
Wulfram
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:37 PM)

Originally Posted by heringer

A line they clearly stole from Avengers, lol.

Avengers stole it from Crocodile Dundee 2, though.
Pacotez
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:38 PM)

Originally Posted by Ridesh

... what the fuck?

I mean, when it comes to impressions before the release of a game. We can only go by the marketing material. Edit: and there are some stuff we can assume is bad or good before playing like character design for example.
Anderson DL
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(01-28-2017, 04:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Very much this. And it sucks for those of us that love these epic, story driven, cinematic games like ME and what not. The story telling, cinematic experience etc. just isn't the same with lower budgets meaning lesser graphics and production values, less and/or worse voice acting, shorter games leaving less time for plot and character development, more time on gameplay that I often don't enjoy and less on story and characters etc.

It doesn't bother me, personally. The older I get, the less drawn I am to the AAA mainstream type games (with a few exceptions). It is becoming more and more homogenized and safe. I feel like I've played those games a dozen times. I want new experiences. I don't mind if the production values aren't through the roof. I just want a game that offers me something new. I hardly ever find that in the AAA space.
Fisty
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(01-28-2017, 04:39 PM)
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Personally I think either BotW or Mario Odyssey might be the "most important" based on how necessary they are for Nintendo's survival. This is Nintendo's make or break year and they put all their eggs in one hardware basket... if they blow it with those two games, I think it'll be pretty dire for them
olag
Junior Member
(01-28-2017, 04:39 PM)
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If this was pre-Mass effect 3, I would have agreed. However Bioware's last 3 releases have been disappointments for me . Sure they had positives, but their negatives outweighed the positives so much so that I cant really stomach having my usual multiple playthroughs of their games anymore.

Rather than alleviate my concerns, MEA's marketing has been really vague plus their most recent combat overhaul has left me with even more questions than answers.

So No. MEA is certainly not the most important game of 2017 so far and it has a hell of a lot to prove that it should even be remotely considered for the category IMO.
inky
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(01-28-2017, 04:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cerium

perfect
Wulfram
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:42 PM)
The article is dumb, so is the GAF hateathon about MEA
dmaul1114
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:45 PM)

Originally Posted by Anderson DL

It doesn't bother me, personally. The older I get, the less drawn I am to the AAA mainstream type games (with a few exceptions). It is becoming more and more homogenized and safe. I feel like I've played those games a dozen times. I want new experiences. I don't mind if the production values aren't through the roof. I just want a game that offers me something new. I hardly ever find that in the AAA space.

Yeah I've just gone the other way. As I've gotten older, busier, more stressed and have an intellectually exhausting career, I mostly just want easy games with good world building, decent story and characters that I can get lost and veg out for a few hours with.

Low production values, too much focus on combat, complex mechanics etc. just break that immersion for me.

I do like some non-story driven stuff. Especially Nintendo games. They tend to be just fun, relatively simple mechanically, and few of their titles are high on difficulty. With the decline in ME like games, I'm largely getting a Switch as I've been pretty bored with PS4 and PC lately. If I'm bored with Switch too then I'll probably need to have a hard conversation with myself about whether gaming in general is still for me vs. just investing more time in shows, movies and novels.
TetraGenesis
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(01-28-2017, 04:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spring-Loaded

"Colonization is hopeful" threw me off for a bit

In the modern day nightmare of Trump's America, apparently manifest destiny is good thing again?

Originally Posted by Tertullian

If people want to argue that other games are more important, it would be nice to hear some actual reasons why. The headline doesn't say "best," it says "most impotant." Is something like Horizon really an important game, when it's just yet another 3rd person open world action game, even if it turns out to be great?

On the other hand, the article's arguments are nonsense.

  • Is there any actual evidence that epic narrative single-player games are on the decline, making ME Andromeda a kind of last bastion of the form? Did anyone actually count and see that fewer of those games come out every year, or that fewer are in development than ever before? Certainly not in the article. Sounds like horseshit.
  • Is there any reason to think that ME Andromeda's character drama is gonna be particularly good? Not in the promotional material we've seen so far.
  • Is there any good reason to believe that Andromeda is going to nail that hopeful, forward-looking sci-fi spirit? Again, not really, from the promotional material weve seen so far. (And is Arthur C. Clarke really a hopeful writer?)

Excellent points. I was going to argue similar ideas but you totally nailed it.

I'm not sure where this writer is getting all their ideas for ME:A. It seems like they're filling in a lot of gaps with fantasy. Either way, I can't say I agree in the slightest.
Vulcano's assistant
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(01-28-2017, 04:45 PM)
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Zelda sounds about right, seems like the success of the Switch lies on its shoulders.
Anderson DL
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(01-28-2017, 04:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by JamesHolden

Complaining about a AAA game because it's made like a AAA game is asinine. If you hate AAA games because of committees and focus groups, then you pretty much hate AAA games, so what value is your opinion on AAA games if that is your baseline.

Oh, that was what you were trying to say -- that people who say the game is "designed by committee" are being asinine, because all AAA games are designed by committee. I see.

I still think you're taking the phrase literally rather than hearing the implicit message. Just because there are committees involved doesn't mean that the game has to end up looking like it was "designed by committee." There are plenty of AAA games that avoid this fate. Uncharted and Horizon Zero Dawn come to mind, for instance.

p.s. I should add, it's just a reaction to the trailers. Coming out of marketing, I think that is getting accentuated. Hopefully, the final game won't feel that way.
The Cartographer
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(01-28-2017, 04:52 PM)
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In many ways it harks back to the great science fiction novels of the Fifties and Sixties from the likes of Asimov, Heinlein and Clarke in which gigantic spacecraft vanish along glittering hyperspace lanes to distant galaxies; where alien worlds are discovered and colonized, against the odds.

Someone is about to face a rude awakening over this new Mass Effect.
Anoxida
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(01-28-2017, 04:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pacotez

"You haven't played the game" is the worst defense there is, specially when it's about to the fourth installment in a franchise

What you're saying makes no sense especially when ME1 -> 2 is one of the biggest leaps (or change depending on your preference) we've seen in a direct sequel. They're very different games. This can be too. Saying that it's the worst defense there is with this context in mind is silly and further proves my point that people already decided what the game is already.
dmaul1114
Member
(01-28-2017, 04:55 PM)

Originally Posted by Anderson DL

Oh, that was what you were trying to say -- that people who say the game is "designed by committee" are being asinine, because all AAA games are designed by committee. I see.

I still think you're taking the phrase literally rather than hearing the implicit message. Just because there are committees involved doesn't mean that the game has to end up looking like it was "designed by committee." There are plenty of AAA games that avoid this fate. Uncharted and Horizon Zero Dawn come to mind, for instance.

p.s. I should add, it's just a reaction to the trailers. Coming out of marketing, I think that is getting accentuated. Hopefully, the final game won't feel that way.

IDK. I think a lot of the AAA game haters he was talking about are the same ones saying they hate Uncharted as it's boring gamplay and should have just been an action movie and who are down on Horizon saying it's catering to the masses/trends with a female protagonist, robot dinosaurs, looks like another boring AAA open world game that will probably be full of Ubisoft towers and what not.

I think you're downplaying the vocal majority on here that just loathes AAA gaming, never gives those games a chance, and lets everyone know how much they hate AAA games and how superior their niche tastes are every chance they get.
ironcreed
Banned
(01-28-2017, 04:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bronetta

The series has always had it's share of jank. Come on, now.







So basically:



I will love it, jank and all.
Omotesando
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(01-28-2017, 05:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by ironcreed

The series has always had it's share of jank. Come on, now.

I will love it, jank and all.

The jank part of the gif is the least of it.
Arkam
(01-28-2017, 05:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by sphinx

personally, Horizon and Zelda, say "fuck no"

Tell'm Steve Dave!!

Unless I am missing something the single player/multiplayer AAA output has been about the same for years. We had the big shift to add multiplayer to everything in around 06, started seeing more multi only games a couple years later... then it kinda leveled off. We learned that epic single player audiences don't always care fur multiplayer and that multiplayer may keep usage up, but it does not make money unless you have an aggressive MTX strategy to offset operational costs.

All that said ME does look good and I hope it dies well.
Aikidoka
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(01-28-2017, 05:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by ironcreed

The series has always had it's share of jank. Come on, now.


I will love it, jank and all.

That doesn't qualify as jank, but just plain bad writing/scenario design. There's also that trailer scene where Ryder storms into some stronghold, gets told "Go away" and she's all like "meh, fine".
Spyder_Monkey
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(01-28-2017, 05:04 PM)
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I don't know why there's any reason to be confident in this game.
WrenchNinja
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(01-28-2017, 05:05 PM)
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I think they're confusing desperate with hopeful

Like aren't these people sent away because the they think the milky way is done-zo by the reeapers
timmyp53
Member
(01-28-2017, 05:05 PM)
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The new trailers animations look pretty good to me. I'm hyped. Going to have to customize character face real strong though

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