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Ikuu
Member
(02-03-2017, 08:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by nekkid

I'm from the UK, I'm not quite that high an earner...

Stocks and Shares ISA.
nekkid
Member
(02-03-2017, 08:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ikuu

Stocks and Shares ISA.

But would the returns be better than the cash saved by me putting that money into overpaying my mortgage and my pension?
John Kowalski
#mybreak
(02-03-2017, 08:56 PM)
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The less i have to deal with money the better my life will be. All i think is necessary is enough money not to worry about bills. I'd rather go through the trouble of counting my expenses than the trouble of dealing with investing and divesting and all that wuzza whatness.
Mr.Mike
Member
(02-03-2017, 09:04 PM)
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The question wasn't about why most people don't invest, but about why more people don't invest. And it is absolutely true that a lot of people don't really have the expendable income to invest. And I do sympathize.

But at the same time there are a lot of middle class people who do have the ability to invest but don't. And I don't think the main reason actually is a lack of self-control inherent in human nature. Part of it is a lack of knowledge, but largely I think it's a cultural issue. Other cultures do have higher savings rates.

And when middle class people do save/invest often they're using savings accounts or mutual funds with high fees, which is a shame. (Check out the retirement thread here). People are afraid of the stock market, and they should be at least a little bit. But they fail to see the long term risk inflation poses to the real value of their savings. Investing in stocks can reduce the overall risk to a persons long term financial wellbeing.

Speaking of risk, the risk that you die before you retire is very real. And yeah, you shouldn't make yourself miserable right now for the sake of retirement. But do balance that against the risk of you actually living long enough to have a miserable retirement. Finance is all about balancing risks.

PS. I have a really hard time imaging most amateurs who fuck with stock picking come out on top, especially when you factor in how much time they spent on the topic. I don't fully reject that it can be worth it for some people, like a lot of indexers do. But the people for whom it might actually be a good idea for don't need me to tell them that. Most people should just index.
Last edited by Mr.Mike; 02-03-2017 at 09:12 PM.
Walter White Walker
Member
(02-03-2017, 09:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by KrellRell

That's a misconception, you can definitely achieve 6%+ annual returns after fees. I do agree pay that mortgage off asap, but don't be afraid to let an adviser handle your cash, you just gotta find someone you can trust.

In all honesty fuck financial advisers. Unless they're held to a fiduciary standard in everything they do - and the vast, vast, vast majority aren't - they don't have to put your interests first and thus don't. They look out for themselves first, the company they work for second, and coming in somewhere below their goldfish is you, their dear client. As far as I'm concerned they do absolutely nothing you can't do perfectly well on your own and at far, far less cost.
Username1198
Member
(02-03-2017, 09:05 PM)
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It's hard to invest when your paycheck to paycheck
AstroNut325
Member
(02-03-2017, 09:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Randolph Freelander

http://neogaf.site/forum/showthread.php?t=176332

Thank you good sir.
KrellRell
Member
(02-03-2017, 09:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Walter White Walker

In all honesty fuck financial advisers. Unless they're held to a fiduciary standard in everything they do - and the vast, vast, vast majority aren't - they don't have to put your interests first and thus don't. They look out for themselves first, the company they work for second, and coming in somewhere below their goldfish is you, their dear client. As far as I'm concerned they do absolutely nothing you can't do perfectly well on your own and at far, far less cost.

Sounds like you've had a bad experience, that sucks. What you said can apply to any professional. They're not all bad people :)
BattleMonkey
Member
(02-03-2017, 09:38 PM)
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It takes time. I got the extra money to do it, but not the time to invest in investing. You have to be involved in stocks, even safe ones. Research, watching them, trades, etc it all is a portion of your life. You have to essentially get help to do it often correct, so there goes a cut of your money along with having to spend time now talking with a broker or person who can assist you.
Mr.Mike
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(02-03-2017, 09:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by BattleMonkey

It takes time. I got the extra money to do it, but not the time to invest in investing. You have to be involved in stocks, even safe ones. Research, watching them, trades, etc it all is a portion of your life. You have to essentially get help to do it often correct, so there goes a cut of your money along with having to spend time now talking with a broker or person who can assist you.

I do think you're overestimating how much time it'd take. The path of least resistance seems to be target date funds. https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual.../overview/1691
True Savior
Member
(02-03-2017, 09:42 PM)
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People are fucking poor man. How in the world has society grown to a point that people live oblivious to what surrounds them?
ScatheZombie
Member
(02-03-2017, 09:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mathaou

The stock market is your friend. Invest any spare money you have into it and you'll be set.

No, it isn't. The vast majority of people have no business playing the stock market. All of your expendable income should be going into protected retirement accounts, debt reduction, and a few months living expenses safety net, first.

Most people have debt.
Most people don't have a security net.
Most people aren't putting enough into their retirement accounts.

You should only be gambling on the stock market once you've checked those three boxes.

Originally Posted by Mathaou

Most people who have a job have expendable income.

No, they don't.
Last edited by ScatheZombie; 02-03-2017 at 09:56 PM.
Camoxide
Member
(02-03-2017, 09:55 PM)
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I've got about £8000 in savings im not doing anything with. What's the best way the invest it? (how do I even invest?!)
Goldenroad
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(02-03-2017, 10:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mathaou


Most people who have a job have expendable income. E

Source? I think you mean disposable income, but either way, everything I read tells me that most people are carrying more debt than they can handle, and a person's priority before investing, should be eliminating high interest debt.
Seirith
Junior Member
(02-03-2017, 10:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mathaou

I'm not too worried about employment I'm really driven. And my degree is in a good field.

I am very driven too. Two years ago I had a good job, was about to get a 3k pay bump, a 5% raise and was asked at my review if I wanted to move up with the company as soon as some stuff being planned was finalized, which would have then given me another raise. I said YES and my boss said GOOD.

Then I had to have surgery. I simple surgery which should have had a 4 week recovery. After surgery I developed CRPS, AKA the suicide disease. The pain of CRPS is higher than an amputation with no pain medication. I am in incredible pain 24/7. I was terminated from my job 4 months after my surgery when my doctor would not allow me to return. I never sleep a whole night. My arm and hand feel like they are either on fire or ice cold, sometime both. It also feel likes it is being squeezed. I can type for short periods of time but it hurts beyond belief.

My doctor will not release me to work.

My point is, you have no idea what your future will be. I thought my future was set, a graduate degree with a 4.0 average and a good job. That is all gone. My life is now pain and wondering what I am going to do in the long run.
Walter White Walker
Member
(02-03-2017, 10:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by KrellRell

Sounds like you've had a bad experience, that sucks. What you said can apply to any professional. They're not all bad people :)

Yes they are. :)
There really is no need to give some person 1% in fees a year to manage investments, let alone they tend to stick people in high fee funds on top of that. Meanwhile, I pay total fees in the range of .03-.07% and rebalance the couple of index ETF's I own once a year or so. It's not difficult in the slightest bit and an advisor is going to add zero of value to the equation.
Last edited by Walter White Walker; 02-03-2017 at 10:18 PM.
Piece of Shit
Member
(02-03-2017, 10:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by True Savior

People are fucking poor man. How in the world has society grown to a point that people live oblivious to what surrounds them?

What I'll say to this is that any saving is better than no saving. Save anything you can afford and you'll see it grow because of the interest on interest-effect.
Orayn
Banned
(02-03-2017, 10:28 PM)
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Why don't poor people just buy more money
Ucchedavāda
Member
(02-03-2017, 10:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Camoxide

I've got about £8000 in savings im not doing anything with. What's the best way the invest it? (how do I even invest?!)

Is that everything you have saved?
If so, then it may be better to leave those money where they are, so that you have funds readily available in case of an emergency. The rule of thumb I go by myself is to have at least a couple of months worth of expenses in a savings account, before investing anything. Only invest funds that you might not need at short(ish) notice, since you otherwise risk having to sell at a loss, or worse.

As for the actually investing, I would suggest looking into investing in low-cost index funds, since that does not require that you spend a large amount of time researching individual companies. The 'how' I cannot answer, since I am not located in the UK.
CloudWolf
Member
(02-03-2017, 10:32 PM)
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I need my income, yeah?
M3d10n
Member
(02-04-2017, 06:07 PM)
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I'll stick to my 10% a year (after tax) government bonds, thanks.
bachikarn
Member
(02-04-2017, 06:09 PM)
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Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I don't think index funds are a safe bet in the next four years.
UnemployedVillain
Member
(02-04-2017, 06:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by bachikarn

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I don't think index funds are a safe bet in the next four years.

Well you shouldn't be planning on taking them out after only 4-5 years. They're suppose to be long term (decades) long investments that have slow, but fairly reliable growth far higher (relatively) than the interest from savings accounts
RoadHazard
Member
(02-04-2017, 06:14 PM)
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They either don't have any expendable income, or they prefer just blowing it all. The first group I can sympathize with, the second I cannot.

Either way, I'm personally of the opinion that no regular Joe should be investing directly in stocks, trying to hit highs and lows, etc. You just can't (unless you just get very lucky). What information do you have that the rest of the market doesn't? 99% of all active investors don't consistently beat the market index (which makes perfect sense once you think about it). What does that mean? It means your best chance of good growth is investing in the index, which means index funds. Don't gamble (except maybe with a small part of your investments, if you think it's fun).

Originally Posted by bachikarn

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I don't think index funds are a safe bet in the next four years.

If they aren't, nothing else is either. And an investment like that should be long-term (at least 10+ years, preferably 20+) anyway.
voodoojohn
Banned
(02-04-2017, 06:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by M3d10n

I'll stick to my 10% a year (after tax) government bonds, thanks.

What country do you live in?
Presco
Member
(02-04-2017, 06:37 PM)

Originally Posted by Seirith

I am very driven too. Two years ago I had a good job, was about to get a 3k pay bump, a 5% raise and was asked at my review if I wanted to move up with the company as soon as some stuff being planned was finalized, which would have then given me another raise. I said YES and my boss said GOOD.

Then I had to have surgery. I simple surgery which should have had a 4 week recovery. After surgery I developed CRPS, AKA the suicide disease. The pain of CRPS is higher than an amputation with no pain medication. I am in incredible pain 24/7. I was terminated from my job 4 months after my surgery when my doctor would not allow me to return. I never sleep a whole night. My arm and hand feel like they are either on fire or ice cold, sometime both. It also feel likes it is being squeezed. I can type for short periods of time but it hurts beyond belief.

My doctor will not release me to work.

My point is, you have no idea what your future will be. I thought my future was set, a graduate degree with a 4.0 average and a good job. That is all gone. My life is now pain and wondering what I am going to do in the long run.

Hey, sorry to hear about your situation.

Have you investigated spinal cord stimulation? It can prove very effective for CRPS.
Ikuu
Member
(02-04-2017, 06:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Camoxide

I've got about £8000 in savings im not doing anything with. What's the best way the invest it? (how do I even invest?!)

You could put it into high interest current accounts for the short-term at least, you'll get like 4% back.

https://www.bankaccountsavings.co.uk/calculator
Meus Renaissance
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(02-04-2017, 06:46 PM)
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Many people do. They call it a 'pension'.
Seirith
Junior Member
(02-04-2017, 06:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Presco

Hey, sorry to hear about your situation.

Have you investigated spinal cord stimulation? It can prove very effective for CRPS.


My doctor and I have talked about it. I am hesistant due to the fact it can spread the CRPS and a member of group I am in just died after having one put in. Hers got infected and she was found dead after they could not get the infection under control. Mine would have to go in my neck which is also a pretty signifiant recovery time.

Glad you have heard of CRPS. Most people have never heard of it!
CornBurrito
Member
(02-04-2017, 07:01 PM)
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People can't live happily without entertainment.

It's a shame that instead of providing a higher standard of living for the people in this country when we can easily afford it with minimal redistribution of wealth, we lecture people on basically doing nothing but work and invest. Never enjoying life until maybe one day when they are 75+ years old.
Condom
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(02-04-2017, 07:05 PM)
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I want to enjoy life, people want to enjoy life. Not manage investments.
CornBurrito
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(02-04-2017, 07:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Condom

I want to enjoy life, people want to enjoy life. Not manage investments.

Nonsense. People are robots. Sure, we can afford a basic income for individuals. Especially the elderly. But if you didn't live a life completely devoid of joy from 18 until age 65 you deserve a slow and painful death from either exposure or starvation.
rochet
Junior Member
(02-04-2017, 07:20 PM)

Originally Posted by KrellRell

beat me to it

...Truth...
ascii42
Member
(02-04-2017, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Condom

I want to enjoy life, people want to enjoy life. Not manage investments.

Lifecycle funds make it so that people can take a very hands off approach to investment. Though as with all mutual funds, you do at least have to be careful of high expense ratios.
Randam
Member
(02-04-2017, 07:29 PM)
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I once invested 2000 German Mark.
Now those are worth a little bit over 300 Euros..

1€ is around 2 Mark.

Never again..
jchap
Member
(02-04-2017, 07:31 PM)
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I invest in and lease farm land. Average about 12% roi.

Of course that is in addition to IRA and 401k contribution.
Last edited by jchap; 02-04-2017 at 07:33 PM.
bachikarn
Member
(02-04-2017, 07:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by UnemployedVillain

Well you shouldn't be planning on taking them out after only 4-5 years. They're suppose to be long term (decades) long investments that have slow, but fairly reliable growth far higher (relatively) than the interest from savings accounts

Originally Posted by RoadHazard

If they aren't, nothing else is either. And an investment like that should be long-term (at least 10+ years, preferably 20+) anyway.

Wouldn't bonds be more conservative? Right now I basically have 100% of my 401k in the SP500, but I am debating moving a good amount into bond accounts.

I get that on average over long periods of time you have fairly reliable growth, but seems silly not to leverage the obvious information out there that the next 4 years is a lot more risky than normal.
TylerD
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(02-04-2017, 07:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Randam

I once invested 2000 German Mark.
Now those are worth a little bit over 300 Euros..

1€ is around 2 Mark.

Never again..

Did you invest in single companies? That can go bad, look into investing again but in a diversified (varied) fund or exchange traded fund that tracks an index. I don't know about all the options you have where you are but I'm sure there are similar things to tracking the SP 500 or total market where you are.
Polioliolio
Member
(02-04-2017, 08:21 PM)
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I have expendable income... if you don't count the health insurance I'm not having and the student loans I'm leaving on the grill.


I do have some money I've saved that I want to do something with, but I don't know the best way to use it..
Exhumed
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(02-04-2017, 08:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Duo

They don't have expendable income thats why.

Came here to say this.
ClosingADoor
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(02-04-2017, 08:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Randam

I once invested 2000 German Mark.
Now those are worth a little bit over 300 Euros..

1€ is around 2 Mark.

Never again..

That is why you diversify. If you had just picked a DAX ETF to follow the German market you'd have probably more then doubled your money in that period.
Izayoi
(02-04-2017, 08:44 PM)
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Robinhood is awesome. What are some good index funds to invest in?

Look at some Fidelity and Vanguard high cap ones ATM. Low fees and good returns.

P.S.: Why would you ever invest in an individual stock? Seems like gambling to me.
Last edited by Izayoi; 02-04-2017 at 08:55 PM.
Stone Ocean
Member
(02-04-2017, 08:46 PM)
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I already save most of my expendable income for emergencies, I need to buy my damn toys or I'll go crazy.
7DollarHagane
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(02-04-2017, 08:47 PM)
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Unless you're totally debt free you're almost guaranteed a better return on using extra money to pay off debt.

Unless you get real lucky but you shouldn't be investing in stocks based on luck.

Even if you are debt free it will probably serve you better to have emergency savings built up.

If you have both of those, go nuts.
Izayoi
(02-04-2017, 08:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Meus Renaissance

Many people do. They call it a 'pension'.

Most people don't actually have a real pension anymore. A 401k is NOT a pension.
Izayoi
(02-04-2017, 08:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Camoxide

I've got about £8000 in savings im not doing anything with. What's the best way the invest it? (how do I even invest?!)

Robinhood, mentioned earlier, is a great tool that I just discovered today.

Invest in Index Funds that track the market, like S&P 500.

But you should have 6 months of expenses AT LEAST in savings for an emergency fund.
Truant
Member
(02-04-2017, 09:03 PM)
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I just got a new jobb with a pretty decent salary boost. I might look into index funds, so thanks for the tip, OP. My step dad is a stock broker and will probably help me out if I asked him.
Awful Falafel
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(02-04-2017, 09:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by KrellRell

Sounds like you've had a bad experience, that sucks. What you said can apply to any professional. They're not all bad people :)

But when it's your livelihood at stake why take any risk? A fiduciary is legally required to work in your best interests where as a financial adviser isn't actually held to any standards at all, no certification or licensing required. John Oliver did a great piece on exactly this.
Izayoi
(02-04-2017, 09:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Awful Falafel

But when it's your livelihood at stake why take any risk? A fiduciary is legally required to work in your best interests where as a financial adviser isn't actually held to any standards at all, no certification or licensing required. John Oliver did a great piece on exactly this.

Why not just ask for help here? There are lots of financially literate folks on GAF.
Poodlestrike
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(02-04-2017, 09:24 PM)
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Personally I'm waiting for the next stock market crash before I bother, tbh. We're due.

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