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TheJerit
Member
(03-19-2017, 01:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheChewyWaffles

This game is vaporware.

Except that you can literally play this game right now and they continuously release updates as they progress. For what the scope has transformed into for this game and the fortitude to change processes and/or revisit prior implementations , it's far from some of the worst offenders out there. It's a unique thing that I hope is successful in the end. It would be nice to see something of this magnitude accomplish that. Though they can rightfully fuck off with a lot of those ship prices.....

Originally Posted by Durante

This is not true by definition. They already released multiple playable demos and components. In fact, since they already released something, it can never be vaporware any more even if the developer were to vanish completely tomorrow.

Exactly.
ps3ud0
Member
(03-19-2017, 01:31 PM)
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Good to hear the Vulkan support, hope more games follow suit in adding ubiquitous support - just means theyll target a larger audience which never did any harm!

ps3ud0 8)
KKRT00
Member
(03-19-2017, 01:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chev

Sure, but they've already had to rewrite the physics and entity management to get their multiple physics grid thing and 64 bit coordinates going, and also rewritten the netcode, and part of the animation system, and now graphics too.

There's what, audio left before they've gone full Theseus Paradox?

Sure they rewrote a lot, but they had to, but there is still a lot that its only enhanced from CE or even left as it used to be, like all the brushing tools, PoM and tessellation handling, flowgraphs for anything other than missions, a lot of core shading core and management, rag dolls, skeleton animation tools and so on and so on.
Expanding functionalities or rewriting them into more complex is not the same as writing completely from ground up.
Also there is a difference between having now like 350 employees and full studio of high end engineers and starting with company of 7 people in 2012.

----

Originally Posted by TheChewyWaffles

This game is vaporware.

This should be bannable by now, like seriously ;/ Its such an insult for all developers working on it.

---

Originally Posted by Akronis

OT: Hopefully their implementation won't be a disaster like so many other low-level API games have been

Thats why they are cutting all DX9 code right now and converting everything too full DX11 and then migrating relevant parts to DX12/Vulkan code.
Last edited by KKRT00; 03-19-2017 at 01:44 PM.
Felix Lighter
Member
(03-19-2017, 01:44 PM)
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Makes sense to focus all attention on a single platform agnostic renderer.
Akronis
Member
(03-19-2017, 01:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Evolution of Metal

No, you are just incredibly biased.

We have a thread which is almost all positive so far, where the discussion revolves around what it means for SC and Vulcan, but you just have to front-load your comment and ask for trouble.

Don't kid yourself lol. Look at half of the replies in this thread.

I definitely am biased since I actually bought the game, but holy shit even if I didn't I wouldn't be trumpeting dumb shit like "vaporware"
NewGame
Member
(03-19-2017, 02:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

What development hell?
Game has enormous scope, so it takes time to develop. Watch this and you will understand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c2DogQL95o

Been around since the original kickstarter launch, threw some cash at it because I liked Freelancer enough. I'd really like to see the gameplay prototype, not just how fancy their UI or shaders are.

160 million dollarydoos for a Freelancer 2 seems overkill, we'll have to just wait and see at this point. :)

Ha I love this intro video. Chris seems to say "Hello, you don't remember me but I remember you. You like starwars right?"
Raticus79
Seek victory, not fairness
(03-19-2017, 03:17 PM)
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It's good to see developers starting to follow through on this. I remember reading lots about how Vulkan was a better choice than DX12, but it seemed like a lot to take on.
http://www.kitguru.net/components/gr...e-vulkan-does/
If anyone could tackle it, it's that crew.
BernardoOne
Banned
(03-19-2017, 03:22 PM)
Good. The less Devs going for DX12 and for Vulkan instead the better.
Wollan
The reason why I will never ever be banned.
(03-19-2017, 03:24 PM)
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Good move. With Unity this month and Unreal on Vulkan, Doom being the first Vulkan-only (concerning low-level API support) it seems like we're headed in the right direction. OSX gaming will continue to be a poor comparison until Apple gets their heads out.
flaxknuckles
Member
(03-19-2017, 03:27 PM)
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Every game should use Vulkan. We wouldn't even need native Linux ports and I'd still never need to boot Windows again.
Nzyme32
Member
(03-19-2017, 03:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheChewyWaffles

This game is vaporware.

"I haven't actually looked into anything about this game, its updates and demonstrations - but I hate it anyway"

Since you can play lots of bits, it can't be vaporware. Equally, the updates are fairly consistent including to what you can play. As for when it releases - if ever - that is an entirely different question with no answer thus far as that gets shifted further and further. Quite clearly though, they are making some progress from what they show.
sugarhigh4242
Banned
(03-19-2017, 03:44 PM)

Originally Posted by flaxknuckles

Every game should use Vulkan. We wouldn't even need native Linux ports and I'd still never need to boot Windows again.

I still want those native ports though. Bethesda/Id is letting me down hard.
Kthulhu
Member
(03-19-2017, 03:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wollan

Good move. With Unity this month and Unreal on Vulkan, Doom being the first Vulkan-only (concerning low-level API support) it seems like we're headed in the right direction. OSX gaming will continue to be a poor comparison until Apple gets their heads out.

I'd be surprised if this ever happens.

The level of customization necessary for PC gaming is drastically opposed to Apple's design philosophy.
Memorabilia
Member
(03-19-2017, 04:33 PM)
This is a generally good thing, right? Nothing against DX12, but in light of Vulkan working so well in Doom, DX12 seems superfluous and especially unnecessary other than as a way for MS to continue the Win10 walled garden development angle. Does DX12 directly benefit gamers, even ones in the MS ecosystem (Win10/Xbone) in any way that Vulkan couldn't accomplish?
Hari Seldon
Member
(03-19-2017, 04:35 PM)
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I hope this is a big trend, end the stranglehold that MS has on the PC market.
Chev
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(03-19-2017, 05:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Memorabilia

Does DX12 directly benefit gamers, even ones in the MS ecosystem (Win10/Xbone) in any way that Vulkan couldn't accomplish?

It'll really depend on how they're handled over time. In the past DX unified and defined GPU capabilities in ways openGL never could, and that very directly benefited gamers. It remains to be seen whether the Khronos group will manage to put in the necessary effort to take the crown. It's also worth noting this really all only matters to companies that are willing to expend the huge engineering effort into getting low level APIs like Vulkan or DX12 to work efficiently. Switching is meaningless if you can't get better results than the DX11 drivers. Everyone else will just stick to the excellent DX11 or middleware like UE4/Unity/Cryengine.

Originally Posted by KKRT00

Its such an insult for all developers working on it.

Only to their producers, really. Dev hell and vaporware are only management failures, wasting resources and burning out people who are otherwise working in earnest.
BannedEpisode
Member
(03-19-2017, 05:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Akronis

HURR DURR LOL DEVELOPMENT HELL NEVER RELEASED SCAAAAAAAAAM.

Literally every Star Citizen thread.

OT: Hopefully their implementation won't be a disaster like so many other low-level API games have been

Its fair to ask.

I backed this game 3 years ago expecting I would have played the single player game by now.
Akronis
Member
(03-19-2017, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by BannedEpisode

Its fair to ask.

I backed this game 3 years ago expecting I would have played the single player game by now.

Really? It's fair to say the game is vaporware? That it's a scam? Please.

The game is taking longer than expected, yea, but they're still pushing out tons of info showing us development progress. If they start to go radio silent, that's when I'll get worried. For now, they can take as long as they need to.

Originally Posted by Gormenghast

The game seems such a mess technically that you wonder if it can benefit to make things even harder with Vulkan.

But of course they don't have any intention of releasing the game, so. Just another reason to delay indefinitely.

YUP THESE ARE SOME GOOD QUESTIONS AM I RIGHT?
Last edited by Akronis; 03-19-2017 at 05:25 PM.
Gormenghast
Member
(03-19-2017, 05:22 PM)
The game seems such a mess technically that you wonder if it can benefit to make things even harder with Vulkan.

But of course they don't have any intention of releasing the game, so. Just another reason to delay indefinitely.
Kaako
Felium Defensor
(03-19-2017, 05:25 PM)
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Good move. They'll most likely hit that 2025 release date now since they don't have to support DX13 as well.
DooMAGE
Member
(03-19-2017, 05:32 PM)
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They keep changing the game scope and now the graphics API too?

2025 release.
Kyuur
Member
(03-19-2017, 05:34 PM)
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All good and fine that they choose Vulcan over DX12, but eliminating scalability altogether is dumb. No idea why people are praising.
Abstrusity
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(03-19-2017, 05:36 PM)
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I was considering selling my ships, personally. It's taking an awful lot of time, which is to be expected, but with other problems in my life, I don't know if I could make the final upgrade jump needed to play it well. Can only stretch a Sandy Bridge so far :x
Gormenghast
Member
(03-19-2017, 05:37 PM)

Originally Posted by DooMAGE

2025 release.

That's just 8 years away, it might be realistic.

(the problem is that games with very long and troubled development cycles never really come out "good")

In a couple of years they'll say: "Hmm, there are a number of things that we made years ago and don't match anymore the recent stuff, why don't we start from scratch?"
UserDoesNotExist
Member
(03-19-2017, 05:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by unapersson

I like that hint of possible Linux support, not sure if that has been mentioned before.

Calling it right now: the year Star Citizen comes out is going to be the year of the Linux desktop.
Button
Banned
(03-19-2017, 05:41 PM)
To me this game is just a big joke, but what do I know?
Whompa02
Banned
(03-19-2017, 05:44 PM)

Originally Posted by c0de

When is it going to be released?

3rd quarter of 20-never.
Trace
Member
(03-19-2017, 05:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Button

To me this game is just a big joke, but what do I know?

Nothing apparently.
Nostremitus
Member
(03-19-2017, 05:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by AntiFacebook

Do the ps4 and xbo even support vulkan?

Switch does, no reason they couldn't...
AmyS
Member
(03-19-2017, 05:56 PM)
Vulkan is really good.

I'd like to see the single player campaign, Squadron 42, on Scorpio.
Crayon
(03-19-2017, 06:02 PM)
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We should pull our weight by demanding Vulkan in more games.
blankslatenator
Junior Member
(03-19-2017, 06:04 PM)
I think I bought this game so long ago I don't even know how I would challenge them if they forgot to send me the game...
wildfire
Member
(03-19-2017, 06:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hari Seldon

I hope this is a big trend, end the stranglehold that MS has on the PC market.

I always found it ironic MS Games is even a contributing member to the Vulkan API. There is always going to be interest among programmers to share ideas but I wonder how much their corporate heads will feel about this collaborative relationship continuing to exist.
Crayon
(03-19-2017, 06:06 PM)
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.
LordRaptor
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(03-19-2017, 06:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Memorabilia

This is a generally good thing, right? Nothing against DX12, but in light of Vulkan working so well in Doom, DX12 seems superfluous and especially unnecessary other than as a way for MS to continue the Win10 walled garden development angle. Does DX12 directly benefit gamers, even ones in the MS ecosystem (Win10/Xbone) in any way that Vulkan couldn't accomplish?

DX12 only exists as a panic mode response to the fact MS has taken gaming on windows for granted for so long that developers began creating their own solutions with Mantle which evolved to Vulkan, and MS would really prefer that DirectX remains the standard that they can lock major revisions behind OS upgrades to.
xealo
Member
(03-19-2017, 06:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ombala

Is it ever coming out at all?

Eventually. The time it's taken so far however isn't that out of line yet for a studio that had about a dozen people in total during the beginning of development and is aspiring to create an mmo.
LordOfChaos
Member
(03-19-2017, 06:12 PM)
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k. Now release the darn thing!
KKRT00
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(03-19-2017, 06:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chev

Only to their producers, really. Dev hell and vaporware are only management failures, wasting resources and burning out people who are otherwise working in earnest.

Yeah, because employees are not attached to the projects they are working on it and put all their talent into it...
cripterion
Member
(03-19-2017, 06:25 PM)
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Surprised to see no "DX12 was a mistake" posts lol.

After playing Andromeda, I really want this game's sp content to come out soon!
Did I hear correctly or did they say they have a studio just for animations in that link KKRT00 posted? Crazy
TheRed
Member
(03-19-2017, 06:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Button

To me this game is just a big joke, but what do I know?

These comments are so dumb to me. When has a game with this kind of scope been made in like 3-4 years? When has a game with this kind of scope been made at all? Of course it'll take long, it's still humans working on it and there will be difficulties.
Button
Banned
(03-19-2017, 08:45 PM)

Originally Posted by TheRed

These comments are so dumb to me. When has a game with this kind of scope been made in like 3-4 years? When has a game with this kind of scope been made at all? Of course it'll take long, it's still humans working on it and there will be difficulties.

I just find it stupid how much they promise to do with the game. I predict the game will launch with missing features and the came circus will continue with people telling to wait until it's "finished" with content updates.
Wishmaster92
Member
(03-19-2017, 08:48 PM)
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Would be cool if the Scorpio is shown running a demo of this game when it gets unveiled.
TankRizzo
Banned
(03-19-2017, 08:52 PM)

Originally Posted by Dictator93

Saweeet.




Replace "pics" with "receipts".

To xb1 or PS4? Nah. To their successors? Maybe. It depends on how much peripheral support they have and whether or not their customer populations would be arbitrarily separated by MS and Sony. Beyond the technical problems of bringing SC to current gen, a problem in the road for next gen consoles would be that Chris Roberts wants all the game populations playing in the same simulated persistent universe. MS and Sony are not too friendly about allowing intergame meshing across the competitor platforms historically.

I think SC is a statistical outlier at this point. So much so, that predicting facets of its development and course vis-a-vis otehr kickstarters is not so... convincing.

CryEngine was originally chosen under a uniquiqe context and set of circumstances when you think about it. At a time before UE4 when the game's internal scope was different in a number of ways. CE was, at the time, the most advanced engine graphically and had the vehicle set up support to make the game. Now since the game has had so much funding, they can afford to match the design scope on a technical level, hence how they have basically a large portion of the old CryEngine rendering and architecture team in Frankfurt and a lot of low level graphics coders in the UK.

Which successors? PS10 which will MAYBE be released a year after the PC version?
Raticus79
Seek victory, not fairness
(03-19-2017, 08:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Button

I just find it stupid how much they promise to do with the game. I predict the game will launch with missing features and the came circus will continue with people telling to wait until it's "finished" with content updates.

They've already said that not everything on the roadmap will be in at the launch of the MMO, so that would make it a good prediction I guess.
Xero
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(03-19-2017, 08:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheRed

These comments are so dumb to me. When has a game with this kind of scope been made in like 3-4 years? When has a game with this kind of scope been made at all? Of course it'll take long, it's still humans working on it and there will be difficulties.

Pretty sure that's the point. The scope promise is so big it's not realistic to believe it can deliver on everything stated. Spit either stays in developement too long or starts having to cut features.
TankRizzo
Banned
(03-19-2017, 08:58 PM)

Originally Posted by TheJerit

Except that you can literally play this game right nowand they continuously release updates as they progress. For what the scope has transformed into for this game and the fortitude to change processes and/or revisit prior implementations , it's far from some of the worst offenders out there. It's a unique thing that I hope is successful in the end. It would be nice to see something of this magnitude accomplish that. Though they can rightfully fuck off with a lot of those ship prices.....




Exactly.

We can play primal rage 2 right now if we wanted to.
SnowTeeth
Banned
(03-19-2017, 09:17 PM)
Ah you guys, Primal Rage 2 can be played right now. SC is never going to be released confirmed.

Maybe in 2125 when the PS15 is actually definitely for realsies released we can finally get some Star Citizen action. Can't wait.

Don't cry when it's out doubters, you can play too! :)
Last edited by SnowTeeth; 03-19-2017 at 09:22 PM.
MultiCore
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(03-19-2017, 09:17 PM)
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This is fine if they make sure multi-GPU setups are supported.
Chev
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(03-19-2017, 09:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

Yeah, because employees are not attached to the projects they are working on it and put all their talent into it...

What I'm saying is you can have super talented employees producing awesome content and it won't matter if their leads throw everything away continuously in favor of retakes or changes of specs.

Originally Posted by TheJerit

Except that you can literally play this game right now

Sorta. You can play a game demo that has some ships but lacks most of the promised features. It's gonna take a lot more time before it resembles what was pitched, and with their refusing to show SQ42 becoming a running gag it's easy to see why some people would be anxious or sceptical.
KKRT00
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(03-19-2017, 10:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chev

What I'm saying is you can have super talented employees producing awesome content and it won't matter if their leads throw everything away continuously in favor of retakes or changes of specs.

But they do not throw everything. They did redo stuff, for sure, but in most cases they just rework parts of stuff or update it, to get inline with new newest pipeline and technology their produced, so everything is same top tier quality.
They also do it, to make everything as future proof as possible, so if they design same system, but in way more modular way, they will make/update new version of this system everywhere so they could improve it easier in future.

Like for example ship's production pipeline is fully mature now, which allows them to produce way higher quality ships several times faster than 1.5 year ago.
So for example they have several sets of ship entry animations for different manufactures and types of modules and they reuse them on all new ships they produce.
This also means that when they had ship they produced few years ago, like Aurora, that do not use those animation sets, but some old custom ones, they will redo some parts of Aurora to make use of those animations.

They really try to make their tools and assets as scalable as possible or as upgradeable as possible, so if they would like to update them or expand, they would do it in one place and this would propagate in every system/asset/tech that was based on it.
But of course things like that you never get right at first or even second try right, it needs iterations upon iterations.
They even talk about it in newest AtV regarding space stations/bases/satellites in level design section.
Last edited by KKRT00; 03-19-2017 at 10:43 PM.

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