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kswiston
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(03-20-2017, 03:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Blablurn

Power Rangers has no release date for China.

Could be a major blow for its worlwide cume.

Pretty much everything from Lionsgate makes its way to China, unless there is absolutely zero audience for it or it fails to pass censorship. They are all sold as fixed fee films and don't fall under the profit-sharing film quota.
Aaron Strife
Honk if you love cookies.
(03-20-2017, 03:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by PhoncipleBone

Sorry, but Donny Osmond suddenly singing about making me a man just immediately takes me out of the film.

The songs themselves are great, but just jarring as fuck when implemented into that narrative. And Mushu is fun, but seems like a corporate driven decision to have a comedic sidekick tossed in for toy sales.

As I said, I have a love/hate relationship with the film. There is potential for something truly great in there. They just haven't tapped it yet.

This first teaser for Mulan was 10x more effective at delivering the drama and the feels than the final film. Notice the lack of comedy.

Feel like the problem is it didn't commit to being a musical (or the other way, it didn't commit to simply being a war drama).

My theory is Pocahontas' failure spooked Disney so they retooled whatever movies they had in the pipeline. Hunchback was too far along so it got to stay a full musical, but the majority of the songs in Hercules served as narration and Mulan very abruptly stops being a musical about halfway in. By the time you got to Tarzan the songs were all offscreen Phil Collins singing over montages, a lullaby (which turns into Phil Collins) and Rosie O'Donnell scatting.

It was really hard for them to wean themselves off of the formula so they did it gradually.
kswiston
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(03-20-2017, 03:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Aaron Strife

My theory is Pocahontas' failure spooked Disney

Pocahontas was commercially successful. It wasn't the Lion King, but it made slightly more than Beauty and the Beast worldwide, and was the fifth biggest film that year (less than $30M from Toy Story's #1 worldwide).
PhoncipleBone
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(03-20-2017, 03:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Aaron Strife

Feel like the problem is it didn't commit to being a musical (or the other way, it didn't commit to simply being a war drama).

My theory is Pocahontas' failure spooked Disney so they retooled whatever movies they had in the pipeline. Hunchback was too far along so it got to stay a full musical, but the majority of the songs in Hercules served as narration and Mulan very abruptly stops being a musical about halfway in. By the time you got to Tarzan the songs were all offscreen Phil Collins singing over montages, a lullaby (which turns into Phil Collins) and Rosie O'Donnell scatting.

It was really hard for them to wean themselves off of the formula so they did it gradually.

Fair assessment. And I really need to revisit Tarzan. I absolutely loved that when it released, but haven't watched it in maybe 10 or so years. I still have the old expensive 2 disc DVD release of that I got off of Reel.com back in the day. I never upgraded to blu for some reason.
BronsonLee
(03-20-2017, 03:54 AM)
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I think we should just blame Princess and the Frog for everything
PhoncipleBone
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(03-20-2017, 03:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by BronsonLee

I think we should just blame Princess and the Frog for everything

Disney probably does. And probably looks at it as the one that got away. That was supposed to be their relaunch of their 2D division.
kswiston
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(03-20-2017, 03:59 AM)
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Disney's biggest issue in the late 90s to early 00s was the insane budget creep.

The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and the Lion King all had $25-45M price tags.

Hunchback to Tarzan all had $85-130M pricetags. The rest of the early 00s followed suit, with someone deciding that $140M for Treasure Planet was an awesome idea. Problem was, audiences were busy watching Pixar and Shrek by that point, and a lot of the films were mediocre.
kswiston
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(03-20-2017, 04:44 AM)
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Here are a few pieces of random trivia:

- Beauty and the Beast doubles the number of female led films in the Top 10 list of biggest opening weekends.

- Beauty and the Beast broke the opening record for a PG (not PG-13) film by >$35M. The previous record setter was Finding Dory.

- Emma Watson is the only person person with lead acting roles for two separate characters in the current top 10 opening weekend list. RDJ played Iron Man four times on the list, and most of the Avengers have three appearances.

- The Dark Knight leaves the Top 10 opening weekends list after a run of 8 years 8 months.

Here's how some other opening weekend record holders faired:
  • Batman - 8 years 10 months
  • Batman Returns - 8 years 5 months
  • Jurassic Park - 7 years 8 months
  • Batman Forever - 5 years 11 months
  • The Lost World - 7 years
  • Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone - 5 years 6 months
  • Spider-Man - 9 years 6 months
  • Dead Man's Chest - 7 years 4 months
  • Spider-Man 3 - 8 years 11 months
Deathly Hallow 2 is set to leave the list in 2018, or by May 2019 at best. If the pattern holds up, it is unlikely that The Force Awakens will still be on the list by the end of 2025.
PhoncipleBone
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(03-20-2017, 04:45 AM)
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Spider power!
kswiston
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(03-20-2017, 04:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by PhoncipleBone

Spider power!

It still bugs me that Spider-man 2 released on a Wednesday. It would have been cool to see all three films break the opening weekend record, like the first three Bat-films did.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
(03-20-2017, 04:56 AM)
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So, what's the over/under on the loss for Ghost in the Shell? I was thinking $100 million, but if BatB holds well, I might take the over on that.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
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(03-20-2017, 05:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by kswiston

- The Dark Knight leaves the Top 10 opening weekends list after a run of 8 years 8 months.
.



That whole weekend was insane, from shockingly breaking Revenge of the Sith's midnight record to dropping only 8% on Sunday. Won't ever forget it.

Originally Posted by kswiston

It still bugs me that Spider-man 2 released on a Wednesday. It would have been cool to see all three films break the opening weekend record, like the first three Bat-films did.

2003-2005 had a really annoying run of uber blockbusters opening on a weekday. Matrix Reloaded, Spider-Man 2, and Revenge of the Sith would all have broken the OW record if they opened on a Friday. Shrek 2 would have gotten close to Spider-Man 1's OW too, and possibly Return of the King and Passion of the Christ too.
kswiston
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(03-20-2017, 05:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Biggest-Geek-Ever

That whole weekend was insane, from shockingly breaking Revenge of the Sith's midnight record

I do remember thinking that TDK's midnight number was insane, only to have it look quaint after a few years of Twilight and Teenaged Harry Potter. Girl nerds really started showing up their boy nerd counterparts when it came to midnight releases.
Finaika
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(03-20-2017, 05:18 AM)
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Beauty and the Beast is a beast.
PhoncipleBone
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(03-20-2017, 05:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by kswiston

It still bugs me that Spider-man 2 released on a Wednesday. It would have been cool to see all three films break the opening weekend record, like the first three Bat-films did.

Agreed.

And it is still hanging onto the top 5 Wednesdays ever

Originally Posted by kswiston

I do remember thinking that TDK's midnight number was insane, only to have it look quaint after a few years of Twilight and Teenaged Harry Potter. Girl nerds really started showing up their boy nerd counterparts when it came to midnight releases.

The midnight for the last HP movie was the most insane thing I have seen at a theater. They had every single screen showing it, and the crowd was overflowing around the building and parking lot.
Last edited by PhoncipleBone; 03-20-2017 at 05:31 AM.
kswiston
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(03-20-2017, 05:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by PhoncipleBone

Agreed.

And it is still hanging onto the top 5 Wednesdays ever

The Monday stat was more impressive, even if it is now on its way down the list thanks to Star Wars holiday boosts.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime...age=Mon&p=.htm
lightskintwin
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(03-20-2017, 05:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by PhoncipleBone

Disney probably does. And probably looks at it as the one that got away. That was supposed to be their relaunch of their 2D division.

Winnie the Pooh was their last 2D animated film which bombed, combined with their 3D films which were on the incline is what made them stop..
ryutaro's mama
lap dances are better
when the stripper is crying
(03-20-2017, 05:42 AM)
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I like that K Swizzle is dropping low profile, Canadian trash talk from time to time in these threads.

Unleash the beast, man!
kswiston
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(03-20-2017, 05:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

Winnie the Pooh was their last 2D animated film which bombed, combined with their 3D films which were on the incline is what made them stop..

Winnie the Pooh was a low budget effort that never got much in the way of a marketing push, despite decent reviews. I always assume that it got made because Pooh moves a lot of merch. The other Pooh related films didn't really blow up the box office either.

The Princess and the Frog was Disney's last full blown, big budget, 2D animated film. I don't think they actually had plans for follow ups beyond that. If it made Tangled money, we would have no doubt received more 2D films. It instead performed fairly modestly. Enough to break even after home video, but not much beyond that. While it was their highest grossing 2D effort since Lilo and Stitch, it sort of confirmed that audiences had transitioned over to 3D films by that point.
Last edited by kswiston; 03-20-2017 at 05:48 AM.
Beren the Empty-Handed
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(03-20-2017, 05:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by kswiston

The Princess and the Frog was Disney's last full blown, big budget, 2D animated film. I don't think they actually had plans for follow ups beyond that. If it made Tangled money, we would have no doubt received more 2D films. It instead performed fairly modestly. Enough to break even after home video, but not much beyond that. While it was their highest grossing 2D effort since Lilo and Stitch, it sort of confirmed that audiences had transitioned over to 3D films by that point.

I want to watch 2D animation... :(
Prototype Viktor
Banned
(03-20-2017, 06:03 AM)

Originally Posted by FZZ

So how big is Blumhouse gonna be now thanks to Get Out and Split

b/c of how they budget they could probably lose on the next 20 or so films and still be fine
lightskintwin
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(03-20-2017, 06:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by kswiston

Winnie the Pooh was a low budget effort that never got much in the way of a marketing push, despite decent reviews. I always assume that it got made because Pooh moves a lot of merch. The other Pooh related films didn't really blow up the box office either.

The Princess and the Frog was Disney's last full blown, big budget, 2D animated film. I don't think they actually had plans for follow ups beyond that. If it made Tangled money, we would have no doubt received more 2D films. It instead performed fairly modestly. Enough to break even after home video, but not much beyond that. While it was their highest grossing 2D effort since Lilo and Stitch, it sort of confirmed that audiences had transitioned over to 3D films by that point.

There was more to it than that.

The Walt Disney Studios' marketing department had warned Disney Animation that the word "princess" in the title "would lead moviegoers to think that the film was for girls only," but the animation studio's management insisted on keeping the "princess" title because they truly believed that the film's excellent quality and beautiful hand-drawn animation would bring in all quadrants anyway. In Catmull's words, this belief "was our own version of a stupid pill."The marketing department turned out to be correct in their prediction that many moviegoers would and did avoid the film because they thought it was "for little girls only." This error was further compounded by the fact that the film opened five days before Avatar.

Using the term Princess and opening up around Avatar played a huge part in it's box office. It lead to them labeling their "princess" films to one word titles like Tangled, Frozen, Brave, and Moana.
Last edited by lightskintwin; 03-20-2017 at 06:16 AM.
kswiston
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(03-20-2017, 06:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

There was more to it than that.

Using the term Princess and opening up around Avatar played a huge part in it's box office. It lead to them labeling their "princess" films to one word titles like Tangled, Frozen, Brave, and Moana.

I don't know if I buy the Avatar excuse. Princess and the Frog's drops and opening weekend multiplier were more or less on par with Tangled and most of Disney's subsequent films (outside of Frozen and Zootopia). Chipmunks opened 5 days after Avatar and made big money. Chipmunks might have actually had more of an effect given the family market overlap. Avatar makes for a good scapegoat, but the last two weeks of 2009 accounted for close to $750M in box office, and Avatar only accounted for a bit more than a third of that.

I can see how the marketing might have limited the male portion of the audience though.
Last edited by kswiston; 03-20-2017 at 06:26 AM.
Sorcerer
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(03-20-2017, 06:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alex_Mexico

How is it that we get weekend box office numbers on Sunday morning? How do we know how films did in the weekend when Sunday is barely starting? I'd figure releasing these on Monday would make more sense.

I don't think Sunday night is a huge night for movies. Around here the theatres are not packed on that night. I think they can assume most of the take from just Friday and Saturday. Also it seems Sunday during the day is a big grocery shopping day.
lightskintwin
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(03-20-2017, 06:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by kswiston

I don't know if I buy the Avatar excuse. Princess and the Frog's drops and opening weekend multiplier were more or less on par with Tangled and most of Disney's subsequent films (outside of Frozen and Zootopia). Chipmunks opened 5 days after Avatar and made big money. Chipmunks might have actually had more of an effect given the family market overlap.

I can see how the marketing might have limited the male portion of the audience though.

Yeah, they definitely learned from that, plus like we both mentioned their 3D films were already on the incline so they just decided to go all in on that market trend.

I'm hopeful they'll test the market someday with a full blown, big budget 2D Animated film.
hirokazu
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(03-20-2017, 06:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by kswiston

Pretty much everything from Lionsgate makes its way to China, unless there is absolutely zero audience for it or it fails to pass censorship. They are all sold as fixed fee films and don't fall under the profit-sharing film quota.

Pretty sure there is absolutely zero market for Power Rangers in China.

Also, look at how bad Lego Batman did there. Nobody cares about Lego because the toys are too expensive, LOL.
kswiston
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(03-20-2017, 06:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

I'm hopeful they'll test the market someday with a full blown, big budget 2D Animated film.

I think it is likely that computer animation will get to the point that animators can convincingly fake the hand drawn 2D look, allowing them to take another stab at that style of film. I know that Disney has been trialing that sort of tech in recent years. I don't know if it is quite ready yet.
Bobby Roberts
Lore Expert
(03-20-2017, 06:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by kswiston

I think it is likely that computer animation will get to the point that animators can convincingly fake the hand drawn 2D look, allowing them to take another stab at that style of film. I know they have been trialing that sort of tech in recent years. I don't know if it is quite ready yet.

Didn't Paperman win an Oscar for that? Or was it just nominated.
PhoncipleBone
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(03-20-2017, 06:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by kswiston

I think it is likely that computer animation will get to the point that it can convincingly fake the hand drawn 2D look, allowing them to take another stab at that style of film. I know they have been trialing that sort of tech in recent years. I don't know if it is quite ready yet.

It is close.

Edit: damn you, Bobby! I am too slow on mobile.
hirokazu
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(03-20-2017, 06:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by PhoncipleBone

This first teaser for Mulan was 10x more effective at delivering the drama and the feels than the final film. Notice the lack of comedy.

I'm guessing that trailer was intended for distributors or something? There's a lot of unfinished roughs in there.
PhoncipleBone
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(03-20-2017, 06:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by hirokazu

I'm guessing that trailer was intended for distributors or something? There's a lot of unfinished roughs in there.

First theatrical teaser had the roughs
kswiston
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(03-20-2017, 06:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

Didn't Paperman win an Oscar for that? Or was it just nominated.

Yeah, I was thinking of that. It's still noticeably 3D animated though. They do nail the more exaggerated expressions.
hirokazu
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(03-20-2017, 06:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by lightskintwin

There was more to it than that.



Using the term Princess and opening up around Avatar played a huge part in it's box office. It lead to them labeling their "princess" films to one word titles like Tangled, Frozen, Brave, and Moana.

It's pretty fucking stupid if people don't see animated movies just because it has "Princess" in the title.
lightskintwin
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(03-20-2017, 06:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by hirokazu

It's pretty fucking stupid if people don't see animated movies just because it has "Princess" in the title.

It's why marketing and demographics exist.
kswiston
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(03-20-2017, 06:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by hirokazu

It's pretty fucking stupid if people don't see animated movies just because it has "Princess" in the title.

Male audiences are bad for that sort of thing. The opening weekend audience for Bad Moms was 82% female. The male equivalent film would have been way more equal. I think the Hangover films were close to 50/50.
lightskintwin
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(03-20-2017, 06:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by kswiston

Male audiences are bad for that sort of thing. The opening weekend audience for Bad Moms was 82% female. The male equivalent film would have been way more equal. I think the Hangover films were close to 50/50.

Yeah, I'm curious if Princess and the Frog was titled Swamped how much difference it would've made, because guys definitely associate "Princess" with girly.
Blablurn
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(03-20-2017, 07:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by kswiston

Pretty much everything from Lionsgate makes its way to China, unless there is absolutely zero audience for it or it fails to pass censorship. They are all sold as fixed fee films and don't fall under the profit-sharing film quota.

I hope you are right, cause I really wanna see it.
Tricky I Shadow
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(03-20-2017, 02:40 PM)
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Beauty and the Beast is coming for that fourth worldwide gross spot. Watch your back Jurassic World!
Last edited by Tricky I Shadow; 03-20-2017 at 03:55 PM.
BronsonLee
(03-20-2017, 02:42 PM)
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I remember trailers for the Winnie the Pooh movie and it felt like they were going for it, but then marketing kinda petered out

Also none of you watched Lilo and Stitch so I'm gonna gut you
Jawmuncher
(03-20-2017, 02:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by PhoncipleBone

Disney probably does. And probably looks at it as the one that got away. That was supposed to be their relaunch of their 2D division.

To this day, I hope they reconsider trying again.
Schlorgan
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(03-20-2017, 03:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by BronsonLee

I remember trailers for the Winnie the Pooh movie and it felt like they were going for it, but then marketing kinda petered out

Also none of you watched Lilo and Stitch so I'm gonna gut you

It didn't do that bad. It's comparable to Mulan.

Lilo & Stitch:


Mulan:


Compared to Mulan, it did $30m less WW, but $25m more Domestic.
Last edited by Schlorgan; 03-20-2017 at 04:11 PM.
LordOfLore
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(03-20-2017, 04:06 PM)
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Finished Kong. Pretty good. Some other 20 year olds went "Yoooooooo!" during the stinger while I just smiled.

Who's directing Godzilla 2?
tomtom94
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(03-20-2017, 04:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by LordOfLore

Finished Kong. Pretty good. Some other 20 year olds went "Yoooooooo!" during the stinger while I just smiled.

Who's directing Godzilla 2?

Michael Dougherty, typically known for directing horror films (Krampus, Trick 'r' Treat) and collaborating with Bryan Singer (co-wrote X2, Superman Returns, and Apocalypse)
Ross61
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(03-20-2017, 04:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by tomtom94

Michael Dougherty, typically known for directing horror films (Krampus, Trick 'r' Treat) and collaborating with Bryan Singer (co-wrote X2, Superman Returns, and Apocalypse)

Bryan Singer? You mean Zack Shields?
CassSept
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(03-20-2017, 04:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by BronsonLee

I remember trailers for the Winnie the Pooh movie and it felt like they were going for it, but then marketing kinda petered out

Also none of you watched Lilo and Stitch so I'm gonna gut you

Why did they even release that on the same day as the final Potter movie.
tomtom94
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(03-20-2017, 04:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ross61

Bryan Singer? You mean Zack Shields?

I went with what I saw as the more obvious connection in that he's written scripts for three of Singer's films. Didn't actually spot Zack Shields was involved.
Poor GRIMES
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(03-20-2017, 05:02 PM)
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Sounds like the final number will be around $175M, meaning BatB will have the 6th highest OW (knocking down Iron Man 3).
Gentleman Jack
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(03-20-2017, 05:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by kswiston

Male audiences are bad for that sort of thing. The opening weekend audience for Bad Moms was 82% female. The male equivalent film would have been way more equal. I think the Hangover films were close to 50/50.

So is this why the next 'several women get intoxicated and have a zany, profane night on the town' is going with a much more neutral "Rough Night'" title instead of something that would repel manly men like "bad moms" or "bridesmaids?"
Ross61
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(03-20-2017, 05:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by tomtom94

I went with what I saw as the more obvious connection in that he's written scripts for three of Singer's films. Didn't actually spot Zack Shields was involved.

That is actually my fault. I misread and thought you said that's Bryan Singer was involved.
BumRush
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(03-20-2017, 05:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Poor GRIMES

Sounds like the final number will be around $175M, meaning BatB will have the 6th highest OW (knocking down Iron Man 3).

Now we wait on the legs. If Bobby's right it's all downhill from here (I'm not so sure)

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