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Sullichin
Member
(03-20-2017, 08:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by JasonMCG

You're gonna need their body spoils if you want to upgrade a certain set of armor later on.

Gotta find the rest of the barbarian set first :(
pringles
Member
(03-20-2017, 08:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sullichin

Actually fighting them..... eh. I'll only do it if the master sword has a full charge, doesn't really seem worth it to break 3 weapons on them to get one.

They usually drop 2 and by the time you have good enough equipment to fight them you should be drowning in good weapons unless you're doing something seriously wrong (like mining for ore with your katanas).
Soul of the Beast
Banned
(03-20-2017, 08:10 PM)
Breath of the Wild is truly amazing.
I have completely gave up on video game AI after the original F.E.A.R.
Everything after that just feels backwards, not even Naughty Dog can make a smart enemy AI.

The enemies in BOTW feels so alive and unpridictable, It actually blows me away.
I know this sounds like one of those typical cheesy BOTW praising but the game actually makes me feel like a kid again.
Last edited by Soul of the Beast; 03-20-2017 at 08:14 PM.
TheMink
Member
(03-20-2017, 08:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sullichin

Gotta find the rest of the barbarian set first :(

Hint:

Labyrinths
guek
Banned
(03-20-2017, 08:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Soul of the Beast

Breath of the Wild is truly amazing.
I have completely gave up on video game AI after the original F.E.A.R.
Everything after that just feels backwards, not even Naughty Dog can make a smart enemy AI.

The enemies in BOTW feels so alive and unpridictable, It actually blows me away.
I know this sounds like one of those typical cheesy BOTW praising but the game actually makes me feel like a kid again.

Some parts, yes, but some parts don't feel better than the industry average. I wish enemies learned to look for me or at least move out of the blast radius when I'm chucking bombs at them from above or a hidden location. There are also times archers keep trying to shot you from an impossible angle so they continue to miss over and over.

Bokoblins seem to be the most stupid though, with moblins and lizofos faring better and lynels being smartest.
antibolo
Member
(03-20-2017, 08:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Skyzard

I wish there were a few more enemies as challenging as Lynels in the game tbh. Specifically the giants, it's nice they cover their eyes and pick up stuff, but they're a bit too easy.

Haha oh yeah I love that detail. The first time you face a Hinox, you think you can keep shooting his eye until he's dead, but eventually the big idiot figures out your plan.

Enemy behaviour in this game is always so fun. They're not necessarily smart, but they do feel like living beings who respond to your actions.
Last edited by antibolo; 03-20-2017 at 08:39 PM.
Zoator
Member
(03-20-2017, 08:39 PM)
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Fighting my first Lynel certainly got my heart racing before I figured out to just spam flurry attacks on them. Their homing arrow rain attack is bullshit, though. If I move out of the way after the arrow leaves the bow, it shouldn't land on top of me 2 seconds later. That just feels like the AI cheating.
vypek
Member
(03-20-2017, 08:41 PM)

Originally Posted by JasonMCG

You're gonna need their body spoils if you want to upgrade a certain set of armor later on.

They seem to have a low drop rate for their guts. Everything else seems to drop its guts faster as far as I can tell. I hope I'm just mistaken though and its cause I'm trying to farm them that its making me perceive it that way.
Totakeke
Member
(03-20-2017, 08:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zoator

Fighting my first Lynel certainly got my heart racing before I figured out to just spam flurry attacks on them. Their homing arrow rain attack is bullshit, though. If I move out of the way after the arrow leaves the bow, it shouldn't land on top of me 2 seconds later. That just feels like the AI cheating.

But were you running at the same trajectory before it left? There are actually good tracking in there, cheating or not, as evident from fighting octoroks. If you just keep running they'll hit you.
cryptosporidium
Member
(03-20-2017, 08:43 PM)
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bokoblins seem to have more advanced AI than the lynels tbh
Smeags
Junior Member
(03-20-2017, 08:43 PM)
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I dunno man, Octoroks have some incredible AI.

I mean, the ability for them to see into the future and predict exactly where you run or (attempt to) hide is pretty unbelievable.

As in, I seriously cant believe that Im STILL being hit by that damn Octorok.

Octoroks are evil.
Zoator
Member
(03-20-2017, 08:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Totakeke

But were you running at the same trajectory before it left? There are actually good tracking in there, cheating or not, as evident from fighting octoroks. If you just keep running they'll hit you.

Nope. I first tried to fight one with arrows from a distance. He would let an arrow go into the sky, immediately followed by me releasing my arrow (from a stationary position) and then running away in an arbitrary direction. His hit rate was almost perfect.
Boem
Member
(03-20-2017, 08:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Smeags

I dunno man, Octoroks have some incredible AI.

I mean, the ability for them to see into the future and predict exactly where you run or (attempt to) hide is pretty incredible.

Octoroks are evil.

You need to switch up the direction in which you run. This goes for a lot of enemies - if you continue to run in the same direction while they're charging/preparing some of their attacks, they can predict where you're running too (just like you would in real life). You need to mix it up a bit.
Whales
Member
(03-20-2017, 08:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Totakeke

But were you running at the same trajectory before it left? There are actually good tracking in there, cheating or not, as evident from fighting octoroks. If you just keep running they'll hit you.

nah, that overhead arrow move just tracks you until the last second when it hits the ground. It is actually quite bullshit
Feep
Second-hand Citizen
(03-20-2017, 09:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by UncleSporky

The best AI isn't the same thing as "hardest to program," "most complex," or "most difficult to fight."

The best AI is the one that makes you briefly feel like you're possibly interacting with something beyond a computer subroutine, something with some personality.

To have an enemy that stands in such stark contrast to the rest of the game, one that just stares you down, you draw your weapon and it does the same, sometimes firing at you behind cover or charging at you...it was designed in a really smart way. So many people in this thread are talking about them in ways reserved for real people or characters. They seem cautious, curious, alert, intimidating. Intelligent.

It's a boolean statement, dude. You almost can't even call it AI at all, depending on who you ask. It's a nice touch. But even granted all your suppositions, have you *played* Last Guardian? Trico makes the Lynels look like a joke.
Abilidebob
Member
(03-20-2017, 09:31 PM)

Originally Posted by Feep

It's a boolean statement, dude. You almost can't even call it AI at all, depending on who you ask. It's a nice touch. But even granted all your suppositions, have you *played* Last Guardian? Trico makes the Lynels look like a joke.

A Lynel is one type of monster out of dozens. Trico is one of the 2 main characters in a game that revolves around interactions with the beast. I kinda expect that one is going to have more and "smarter" interactions than the other.
aBarreras
Member
(03-20-2017, 09:39 PM)
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also what the fuck is "lynel"??

i guess Ly is for lyon? and nel? "centinel" or what?

on spanish they are called centaleon

Centa for centaur and leon for lyon

but it dont know what a lynel is
wiibomb
Member
(03-20-2017, 09:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by aBarreras

also what the fuck is "lynel"??

i guess Ly is for lyon? and nel? "centinel" or what?

on spanish they are called centaleon

Centa for centaur and leon for lyon

but it dont know what a lynel is

well, I think you said it

Lion + Centinel = lynel

don't mind much the "y"
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
(03-20-2017, 09:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

Some parts, yes, but some parts don't feel better than the industry average. I wish enemies learned to look for me or at least move out of the blast radius when I'm chucking bombs at them from above or a hidden location. There are also times archers keep trying to shot you from an impossible angle so they continue to miss over and over.

Bokoblins seem to be the most stupid though, with moblins and lizofos faring better and lynels being smartest.

Well they can't be too smart or else things like bombs would never work which involve setup and risk
visiblemode
Member
(03-20-2017, 09:44 PM)
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Fought it several times, found its AI unremarkable. It has really high HP, however, and took ages to kill, early in.
Akuun
Member
(03-20-2017, 09:53 PM)
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I didn't even know they did the whole staring down thing. I guess I take combat too directly.

I always went right in and treated them like Dark Souls bosses, and they always just responded in kind.
jrDev
Member
(03-20-2017, 09:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by :Motorbass

Here is an indepth fighting guide for the timing of flurry rushes and blocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IUPHWJuzC0

The guy beats them as a hobby with no damage and tree branches. He's good!

Jesus Christ! This is amazing! This game is amazing!
Mashing
Member
(03-20-2017, 09:58 PM)
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I've killed a number of the sword wielding ones (red-maned) but too scared to take on a blue or silver yet (and this is with level 3 armor and full royal weapons).
Chaos17
Member
(03-20-2017, 09:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by visiblemode

Fought it several times, found its AI unremarkable. It has really high HP, however, and took ages to kill, early in.

Try to fight them long range only and come back here :)

Originally Posted by guek

Some parts, yes, but some parts don't feel better than the industry average. I wish enemies learned to look for me or at least move out of the blast radius when I'm chucking bombs at them from above or a hidden location. There are also times archers keep trying to shot you from an impossible angle so they continue to miss over and over.

Bokoblins seem to be the most stupid though, with moblins and lizofos faring better and lynels being smartest.

Meh a monster that hunt you till the end of earth is not fun (played many mmorpgs who do that).
Last edited by Chaos17; 03-20-2017 at 10:02 PM.
Grakl
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:00 PM)
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First one I saw was silver one, hella good fight. Surprised they're not considered world bosses
Sword Of Doom
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:03 PM)
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I can across one for the first time the other day. I peaked over some rocks and saw it and knew what it was from all the talk I'd heard. It noticed me and started shooting arrows into the sky. Luckily I ran away without dying. Definitely not ready to face one yet
Remapped88
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:10 PM)
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Ummm holy shit what?! They can stare you down when you don't have a weapon drawn? That's pretty damn awesome honestly. Shit....the first Lynel I saw, I just shot him like 100 yards away from a high cliff after wreaking a Hinox before that thinking "haha, this dude can't get me with his big sword from down there" and absolutely destroyed me with his Shock Arrows *cough*DoomHiddenMissiles*cough* from above. I had like 2 fairies and just as I was revived the first time, the 2nd volley of death came and killed me the 2nd time....and 3rd time. Needless to say, that first encounter made me scared as hell and I just sneak around them now until I get more hearts(and better at dodging) lol. And Silver Lynels......nope.
DEO3
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Benzychenz

It's amazing that so many people had trouble with this.

It's a stealth mission.

Oh, huh, I just run around until I learned his attack pattern, and then killed him by dodging his attacks and following up with flurry attacks of my own. After awhile I began to wonder if it was meant for the player to be able to kill him at that point in the game because it seemed like it was taking a really long time, but in the end, I was able to kill him on my second or third try with only three hearts.
timshundo
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:15 PM)
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It's true Lynels feel specifically... real. Or just unfamiliar. It has crazy hearing and will notice you from super far away but it won't attack unless you draw a weapon, get out your bow, or start running straight at it. Otherwise he'll just watch you. At no point have I thought "wow this computer character was programmed quite well" but rather "oh fuck he sees me, does he think I'm gonna attack? What if I do... THIS. No? What if I JUMP JUMP!? Now he just think's I'm a crazy person hmmm..."
Mortemis
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:22 PM)
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When I first met mine I was climbing some hills tryna see what was on the other side (around where the first memory thing happens). I spot it and move down, it spots me but doesn't move. I then make the dumb decision to paraglide down and try to kill it, but it just tanks my hit and one shots me. I try again after death and use up all my fire arrows and ice arrows, but nothing scratches this mother fucker.

Haven't messed with one since, I'm deathly afraid. For the Zora mission, I didn't even try to fight, I stealthed the whole thing and got out of there as quickly as possible.
Totakeke
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Feep

It's a boolean statement, dude. You almost can't even call it AI at all, depending on who you ask. It's a nice touch. But even granted all your suppositions, have you *played* Last Guardian? Trico makes the Lynels look like a joke.

You're right. Although like the GDC talk where they talk about how the mechanics and art style are made with the intention to be easiest to lie to the player, does it really matter if the there's no actual AI underneath a character when the player feels like it has one?
HeresSomeWeapons
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Abilidebob

A Lynel is one type of monster out of dozens. Trico is one of the 2 main characters in a game that revolves around interactions with the beast. I kinda expect that one is going to have more and "smarter" interactions than the other.

We aren't grading on a curve here. When someone says, "best AI" I assume they mean "best AI," period. Not, "best AI considering it's one of a dozen things that didn't need to have great AI." Lynel AI is barely even a thing.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(03-20-2017, 10:36 PM)
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I didn't realize you could sneak around the one at Zora's Domain so I spent half an hour getting really really good at dodging into flurry of blows and had one really lucky run and actually beat the bastard
ghibli99
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:38 PM)
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First experience was on the shock arrow quest. One of the NPCs earlier said something about not being able to guarantee if I'd survive or not. Didn't give much thought to that statement.

Got to the area and saw it walking around. Looked awesome and intimidating. Decided to give it a go. I think I got one-shot about 5 times in a row. LOL

It took me a few hours to finally best it. I remember setting a bomb behind me as it chased me around a rock, and from around the corner I watched in horror (and awe) that it shot fire at my bomb to explode it before I could detonate it. Amazing.

As I tried to hide later thinking distance was the answer, it starting nailing me with shock arrows, which were deadlier than his melee attacks. So smart!

It finally took a combination of dodge mastery and some lucky shots with my bow (since all my other weapons and shields were gone) to take it out. Easily one of the most thrilling fights since playing Bloodborne and the Souls games last year. And it's not even required for the quest. That's probably the best part. The challenge is there if you want it, but if not, no big deal.

Now when I see them out in the wild, I immediately take notice and am more careful.
NinjaBoiX
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:55 PM)
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Yeah, they're smart alright.

Seems like they have some amusing scripted behaviour but I dunno about incredible AI.
Mael
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:09 PM)
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Just after finishing the water dungeon, I'm like "heh why not try the Lynel at the top of the mountain there?"
This goes about as well as you would expect.
He's down to a little over 50% and I'm on the ropes pretty badly (3-4 REALLY good weapons broken, no regular arrows, 2 fairies and a special power used and a sickening amount of food ingested).
I'm thinking about the ancient arrows that I managed to scrounged up, I wasted so much already why not go all in!
I fire my arrow at him and while I'm pretty sure I hit the mark he was sent to another dimension or something?
WTF is going on?
Minnow
Junior Member
(03-20-2017, 11:10 PM)
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I dunno if this has been said but I think the lynel near gerudu desert (that desert like area with the horses to the south west of the great plateau) is the strongest one. It's white and has a large mace thing that's stronger than other lynel weapon and has unique attacks. I at least haven't found any other like it.
antibolo
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mael

Just after finishing the water dungeon, I'm like "heh why not try the Lynel at the top of the mountain there?"
This goes about as well as you would expect.
He's down to a little over 50% and I'm on the ropes pretty badly (3-4 REALLY good weapons broken, no regular arrows, 2 fairies and a special power used and a sickening amount of food ingested).
I'm thinking about the ancient arrows that I managed to scrounged up, I wasted so much already why not go all in!
I fire my arrow at him and while I'm pretty sure I hit the mark he was sent to another dimension or something?
WTF is going on?

I'm not sure but I think ancient arrows are guaranteed insta-kill anything that's not a boss or a Guardian? (whereas for Guardians you need a critical to install-kill them)
Mael
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by antibolo

I'm not sure but I think ancient arrows are guaranteed insta-kill anything that's not a boss or a Guardian? (whereas for Guardians you need a critical to install-kill them)

Oh and to make matters worse, he dropped nothing.
silva1991
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:17 PM)
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I dunno, I fought them over 15 times and their AI didn't feel special to me.

their attacks are very predictable after a fight or two.
Irminsul
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(03-20-2017, 11:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mael

Oh and to make matters worse, he dropped nothing.

You were right with your initial intuition. Ancient Arrows make every enemy they hit cease from existence. That's why they drop nothing afterwards.
Crab
Famed for his Europa Universalis IV exploits
(03-20-2017, 11:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by NinjaBoiX

Yeah, they're smart alright.

Seems like they have some amusing scripted behaviour but I dunno about incredible AI.

Stealth Suit and one of the weaker Lynel. Try that on a Whitemane and you'll get your arse handed to you.
Darkman M
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(03-20-2017, 11:19 PM)
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Love fighting those beast, I also was amazed by the stare downs.
Mael
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(03-20-2017, 11:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by antibolo

I'm not sure but I think ancient arrows are guaranteed insta-kill anything that's not a boss or a Guardian? (whereas for Guardians you need a critical to install-kill them)

Originally Posted by Irminsul

You were right with your initial intuition. Ancient Arrows make every enemy they hit cease from existence. That's why they drop nothing afterwards.

Thanks, that explains so much!
Welp I was never going to defeat it regularly at the rate things were going anyway...
Good thing I didn't save.
Jeff-DSA
(03-20-2017, 11:31 PM)
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Ok, so the enemies do some amazingly crazy things. I was fighting a mix of Bokoblins and a Moblin. The Moblin walked to one of the Bokoblins, took his weapon with one hand and picked him up with the other. He then held him over a fire, and threw him at me once he was burning. It set my shield and bow on fire. I almost lost the fight because the whole thing surprised me so much.
antibolo
Member
(03-21-2017, 04:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Irminsul

You were right with your initial intuition. Ancient Arrows make every enemy they hit cease from existence. That's why they drop nothing afterwards.

Well except Guardians, they die normally.
komorebi
Member
(03-21-2017, 04:21 PM)
I sat behind a rock and shot triple bomb arrows at a white Lynel for over 10 minutes. Not once did he call in reinforcements or flank me and I was happy for that.
Skittzo0413
Member
(03-21-2017, 04:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by aBarreras

also what the fuck is "lynel"??

i guess Ly is for lyon? and nel? "centinel" or what?

on spanish they are called centaleon

Centa for centaur and leon for lyon

but it dont know what a lynel is

You could ask that for essentially every Zelda 1 enemy. What the hell is a "keese" or a "darknut"?
Mael
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Skittzo0413

You could ask that for essentially every Zelda 1 enemy. What the hell is a "keese" or a "darknut"?

Except for Rock, that is the only one correctly named.
fun linguistic fact, in the French version the keese are named bat in BotW.
Thud
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Skittzo0413

You could ask that for essentially every Zelda 1 enemy. What the hell is a "keese" or a "darknut"?

Darknuts comes from your nuts going dark after seeing them group together in one room.

I also have no idea why they call snakes ropes.

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