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Beerman462
Member
(04-18-2017, 05:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by chaosblade

Is a waste and shouldn't even exist. Get the 8GB card if you get anything.

Unless you are the type that replaces your GPU annually, then you might be able to get away with it.

The 4GB 580 wouldn't exist if there wasn't a market for it. Maybe the price difference is greater in other markets I don't know.

I agree that if you are really strapped for cash the 570 is a good option, but if you're willing to pay $200 for a card, you might as well spend $20 and get double the VRAM.
ColdDeckEd
Member
(04-18-2017, 06:15 PM)
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The saddest part, to me at least, is at its core the rx 500 series is a tweaked process shrunk 7970. I mean geez, how about at least a Hawaii (r9 2-390 series) core shrink? It would have been a nice bump from the rx 400 series. I can't believe they couldn't even put 9ghz memory in there. I understand most of their focus is on Vega right now, but rebrands like this do nothing to help their brand in the eyes of enthusiasts.
theultimo
Member
(04-18-2017, 06:27 PM)

Originally Posted by ColdDeckEd

The saddest part, to me at least, is at its core the rx 500 series is a tweaked process shrunk 7970. I mean geez, how about at least a Hawaii (r9 2-390 series) core shrink? It would have been a nice bump from the rx 400 series. I can't believe they couldn't even put 9ghz memory in there. I understand most of their focus is on Vega right now, but rebrands like this do nothing to help their brand in the eyes of enthusiasts.

Does the 4x series oc memory well? When i oced my 1060 to 9gbps it did help a lot considering. The polaris is even more starved so i think it will be a huge benefit if you can.
Marmelade
Member
(04-18-2017, 06:34 PM)

Originally Posted by ColdDeckEd

The saddest part, to me at least, is at its core the rx 500 series is a tweaked process shrunk 7970.

What?
chaosblade
Member
(04-18-2017, 06:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by ColdDeckEd

The saddest part, to me at least, is at its core the rx 500 series is a tweaked process shrunk 7970. I mean geez, how about at least a Hawaii (r9 2-390 series) core shrink? It would have been a nice bump from the rx 400 series. I can't believe they couldn't even put 9ghz memory in there. I understand most of their focus is on Vega right now, but rebrands like this do nothing to help their brand in the eyes of enthusiasts.

Uh, Polaris was a new architecture and a new GCN version. It is definitely not connected to or tweaked from the 7970. Beyond being GCN, obviously.

Originally Posted by theultimo

Does the 4x series oc memory well? When i oced my 1060 to 9gbps it did help a lot considering. The polaris is even more starved so i think it will be a huge benefit if you can.

I think most cards with Samsung VRAM can hit 2250/9000 decently reliably, which is the maximum memory overclock in Wattman.
Last edited by chaosblade; 04-18-2017 at 06:41 PM.
pretty done
Member
(04-18-2017, 06:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by derFeef

Computerbase review (German)

On par with 1060 seems like their verdict.

lol fucking AMD

290x here so no reason to upgrade. Really regretting a Freesync monitor over Gsync since AMD GPUs are so weak.
LordOfChaos
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(04-18-2017, 06:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by pretty done

lol fucking AMD

290x here so no reason to upgrade. Really regretting a Freesync monitor over Gsync since AMD GPUs are so weak.


I don't get this. They promised a slightly higher clocked 480, and it's a slightly higher clocked 480. What's the problem apart from expectations people made up?

It's not their high end part, that's still Vega. This has been abundantly clear.
chaosblade
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(04-18-2017, 06:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by pretty done

lol fucking AMD

290x here so no reason to upgrade. Really regretting a Freesync monitor over Gsync since AMD GPUs are so weak.

It's a rebrand/refresh. Disappointing they didn't improve the memory bandwidth since that likely would have given it more of a leg up on the 480, but it was never going to be a huge difference.

You're looking for Vega.
spyshagg
Should not be allowed to breed
(04-18-2017, 06:47 PM)
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They are not helping themselves I agree. But the real culprit for AMD performance in the last half a decade is the manufacturing chastity belt AMD has with glofo.


These same chips (actually with 4 more CU's than the 580) being made in TMSC process are going into the minuscule xbox scorpio box, with an 8 core cpu glued to it.


Had AMD the possibility of making their own chips on TMSC, would paint a very very very different picture. Same applies to ryzen. The problem isn't their engineering - which is fucking great mind you - its the manufacturing.
R1CHO
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(04-18-2017, 06:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by pretty done

lol fucking AMD

290x here so no reason to upgrade. Really regretting a Freesync monitor over Gsync since AMD GPUs are so weak.

Why the lolz?

Value proposition varies from market to market but at least here in Spain Gtx1060 are quite more expensive.
pretty done
Member
(04-18-2017, 06:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by LordOfChaos

I don't get this. They promised a slightly higher clocked 480, and it's a slightly higher clocked 480. What's the problem apart from expectations people made up?

It's not their high end part, that's still Vega. This has been abundantly clear.

Problem is I've been waiting for them to release a GPU that is powerful enough for what I want and they haven't done it in about a year. They seem to only be interested in the budget market. It's annoying.
Dinky Dino
Member
(04-18-2017, 07:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by pretty done

Problem is I've been waiting for them to release a GPU that is powerful enough for what I want and they haven't done it in about a year. They seem to only be interested in the budget market. It's annoying.

Sort of agree. Been dying for a x90/r9 390 successor. ANY one will do
ColdDeckEd
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(04-18-2017, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by chaosblade

Uh, Polaris was a new architecture and a new GCN version. It is definitely not connected to or tweaked from the 7970. Beyond being GCN, obviously..

How can it be a new architecture, and still GCN? AMD has made tweaks like adding delta color compression, but CGN is still the underlying architecture. Its very much connected to the 7970, x70 series has the same number of cores, same number of ROPs, memory bandwidth is very similar. rx x80 series is a modest increase in cores.

Anyways, the gist of my post was that they could've/should've taken a Hawaii core (r9 x90 series) and shrunk that down instead of the Tahiti/Tonga cores. Slap some 9ghz memory on there, and you have a decent increase in performance from the rx 400 series.
chaosblade
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(04-18-2017, 07:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by ColdDeckEd

How can it be a new architecture, and still GCN? AMD has made tweaks like adding delta color compression, but CGN is still the underlying architecture. Its very much connected to the 7970, x70 series has the same number of cores, same number of ROPs, memory bandwidth is very similar. rx x80 series is a modest increase in cores.

Anyways, the gist of my post was that they could've/should've taken a Hawaii core (r9 x90 series) and shrunk that down instead of the Tahiti/Tonga cores. Slap some 9ghz memory on there, and you have a decent increase in performance from the rx 400 series.

My point was that Polaris is GCN 4 or whatever AMD wants to call it now. It isn't a die shrunk anything, it's a new chip. It succeeds the Tahiti based GPUs, and outperforms them significantly.

I don't disagree with the rest though. There are plenty of ways they could have made the 500 series stand out at least a little, but opted for new stickers on old boxes. If they were going to go that route I don't see why they even bothered doing this before Vega. They should have done it after.
ColdDeckEd
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(04-18-2017, 07:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by chaosblade

My point was that Polaris is GCN 4 or whatever AMD wants to call it now. It isn't a die shrunk anything, it's a new chip. It succeeds the Tahiti based GPUs, and outperforms them significantly.

I don't disagree with the rest though. There are plenty of ways they could have made the 500 series stand out at least a little, but opted for new stickers on old boxes. If they were going to go that route I don't see why they even bothered doing this before Vega. They should have done it after.

Same number of cores, ROPs, memory bandwidth almost identical. It's a die shrunk, tweaked Antigua/Tonga. Tonga was a tweaked Tahiti. A rx x70 does outperform them due to the higher clocks, but I wouldn't say its significantly faster than my old oc'd 280x.
michaelius
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(04-18-2017, 07:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by R1CHO

Why the lolz?

Value proposition varies from market to market but at least here in Spain Gtx1060 are quite more expensive.

What's the point of value for money when you still have nothing to replace your 2013 era gpu ?
CreepingFear
Banned
(04-18-2017, 08:04 PM)
How I feel about this release.

jabuseika
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(04-18-2017, 08:10 PM)
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What a dud.
kirbyfan407
Member
(04-18-2017, 08:19 PM)
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Has Nvidia released their refreshed 1060 with the faster memory speed (or bandwidth, whatever it is) yet? I'd like to compare the 580 with however Nvidia is updating their own comparable product.
IC5
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(04-18-2017, 08:22 PM)
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A positive about this refresh is that even the higher priced, factory overclocked versions, seem to be maintaining rock solid boost clocks. Even with the higher power draw.

Whereas the 480 had trouble with that.
V_Arnold
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(04-18-2017, 08:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by IC5

A positive about this refresh is that even the higher priced, factory overclocked versions, seem to be maintaining rock solid boost clocks. Even with the higher power draw.

Whereas the 480 had trouble with that.

That is because the 480 (and the 470) REALLY wanted to draw more than that 150-160w that it could. This 8-pin solution is basically an acknowledgment of that. I have no idea why AMD forced the 6-pin initially, because the card themselves paled in comparison to the 10xx series when it came to power consumption.
dr_rus
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(04-18-2017, 08:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by ZOONAMI

Odds of vega coming in stealth and beating a 1080ti performance wise with 16gb of hbm for $700?

My bet would be at almost zero. Vega 10 is basically an upclocked and optimized Fiji which is below 1070 which is roughly 30% slower than 1080 which is roughly 30% slower than 1080Ti. For Vega to get >60% performance gain to Fiji just from clocks and architectural improvements it has to be very heavy on both. I find this very unlikely, especially considering that Fiji by itself is already GCN3.
ColdDeckEd
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(04-18-2017, 08:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by dr_rus

My bet would be at almost zero. Vega 10 is basically an upclocked and optimized Fiji which is below 1070 which is roughly 30% slower than 1080 which is roughly 30% slower than 1080Ti. For Vega to get >60% performance gain to Fiji just from clocks and architectural improvements it has to be very heavy on both. I find this very unlikely, especially considering that Fiji by itself is already GCN3.

Hasn't Vega been revealed to be using a different architecture than CGN/Fiji?
Marmelade
Member
(04-18-2017, 08:55 PM)

Originally Posted by dr_rus

My bet would be at almost zero. Vega 10 is basically an upclocked and optimized Fiji which is below 1070 which is roughly 30% slower than 1080 which is roughly 30% slower than 1080Ti. For Vega to get >60% performance gain to Fiji just from clocks and architectural improvements it has to be very heavy on both. I find this very unlikely, especially considering that Fiji by itself is already GCN3.

I thought only the "MI8" was based on Fiji (basically a R9 Nano) and that Vega 10 would be something else entirely
chaosblade
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(04-18-2017, 09:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by ColdDeckEd

Hasn't Vega been revealed to be using a different architecture than CGN/Fiji?

Everything I've seen has referred to it as GCN5, including most recently the anandtech Scorpio article. Could all be speculation, but it indicates AMD hasn't confirmed otherwise.
Melubas
Junior Member
(04-18-2017, 09:16 PM)
For me it's annoying that no one includes the 390x in these newer benchmarks. As far as I know it regularly performs better than the 480 so it would be interesting to see the comparison to the 580. This test https://www.nordichardware.se/test/t...ch-rx-570.html is one of the few that has the 390x in the benchmarks.
Abilidebob
Member
(04-18-2017, 09:49 PM)

Originally Posted by sirap

What's your resolution? If you score a cheap/used Fury, go for it. Runs most games on Very High at a solid 60 @ 1440p or compromise and go with 4K/30 (35 in my case to take advantage of that sweet Freesync)

2560x1080. I think my 970 can hold until next year, then I'll decide what to do. Although there aren't as many as back in the day, there's been still some releases that didn't work well on AMD cards, so that's another thing that puts me off a little. The power consumption also doesn't look that good for me. The Fury seems nice enough, but it doesn't help that AMD prices here in Brazil, for some reason, are more overpriced than "usual", compared to Nvidia cards. Until then, my Freesync is left unused. I'm even using a DisplayPort already!
DonMigs85
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(04-18-2017, 10:24 PM)
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Boo, no reviews of the Sapphire RX 470 Mini yet

Originally Posted by IC5

A positive about this refresh is that even the higher priced, factory overclocked versions, seem to be maintaining rock solid boost clocks. Even with the higher power draw.

Whereas the 480 had trouble with that.

Only the dumb 6-pin connector RX 480 have trouble with that. Because RX 480 requires more than 150W but AMD choose to force a 6-pin connector for the marketing of 2x better power efficiency.
Last edited by ethomaz; 04-19-2017 at 04:16 AM.
DonMigs85
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(04-19-2017, 04:25 AM)
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Do we know if Sapphire's 580 and 570 cards will work on a legacy BIOS board?
Locuza
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(04-19-2017, 04:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by ColdDeckEd

Same number of cores, ROPs, memory bandwidth almost identical. It's a die shrunk, tweaked Antigua/Tonga. Tonga was a tweaked Tahiti. A rx x70 does outperform them due to the higher clocks, but I wouldn't say its significantly faster than my old oc'd 280x.

Tahiti:
2 Shader-Engines (Geometry/Tessellation-Engines)
16 CUs per Shader Engine
32 CUs or 2048 cores in total
32 ROPs
384-Bit GDDR5
768 KB L2$

Polaris 10:
4 improved Shader-Engines (Geometry/Tessellation-Engines)
9 CUs per Shader Engine
36 CUs or 2304 cores in total
32 ROPs with Delta Color Compression
256-Bit GDDR5
2048 KB L2$

GCN 1/3 vs. 4 with 2048 ALUs, 1040 Mhz and roughly the same raw bandwidth:

https://www.computerbase.de/2016-08/...performance/2/


Originally Posted by chaosblade

Everything I've seen has referred to it as GCN5, including most recently the anandtech Scorpio article. Could all be speculation, but it indicates AMD hasn't confirmed otherwise.

AMDs Timothy Lottes referred to Vega as GCN5, Page 35:
http://32ipi028l5q82yhj72224m8j.wpen...ing-On-GCN.pdf

The architecture is vastly improved in comparison to GCN Gen 3.
billythemule
Junior Member
(04-19-2017, 07:21 AM)
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It's a bit of a shame that AMD didn't pair the RX500 series with faster memory like the GDDR5X or managed to crank up the memory clock speed. I feel like AMD cards really benefit from higher memory bandwidth. In some games, just increasing the core clock will do next to nothing.
dogen
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(04-19-2017, 07:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by ColdDeckEd

A rx x70 does outperform them due to the higher clocks

It's a lot more than just clocks lol
Larogue
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(04-19-2017, 07:26 AM)
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Pretty good deal for a card between 1060 and 1070 in performance.
Kieli
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(04-19-2017, 07:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Cels

this card is not for you, wait for vega

that said 1070 will be a year old by the time vega is out
why did AMD wait so long?

Yeh. Vega needs to be faster than 1070 and cheaper, otherwise what's the point of waiting 1 year?...
Renekton
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(04-19-2017, 07:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kieli

Yeh. Vega needs to be faster than 1070 and cheaper, otherwise what's the point of waiting 1 year?...

I don't think they chose to sit out a year to develop a leapfrog tech. They were either behind Nvidia as Fiji ran out of steam earlier than Maxwell, or they couldn't R&D many products simultaneously due to low cashflow.
smoothj
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(04-19-2017, 07:39 AM)
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Is it worth it to upgrade from my r9-280x to this?

I think I'm at the time to start thinking about it. Willing to spend up to $300 nvidia or and doesn't matter to me at this point just bang for my fuck. What do you guys think?
lucebuce12
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(04-19-2017, 07:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by smoothj

doesn't matter to me at this point just bang for my fuck. What do you guys think?

You do you man.
neurosisxeno
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(04-19-2017, 07:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by smoothj

Is it worth it to upgrade from my r9-280x to this?

I think I'm at the time to start thinking about it. Willing to spend up to $300 nvidia or and doesn't matter to me at this point just bang for my fuck. What do you guys think?

You could either a GTX 1060 or a RX480/580 for about the same price--around $240-260. Probably a solid upgrade for you at this point.
Omeganex9999
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(04-19-2017, 08:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by smoothj

Is it worth it to upgrade from my r9-280x to this?

I think I'm at the time to start thinking about it. Willing to spend up to $300 nvidia or and doesn't matter to me at this point just bang for my fuck. What do you guys think?

I think a 580/1060 is a good update. Those cards rock at 1080/1440p. Definitely the best bang for your... buck. But it's up to you, they're both pretty good, Nvidia a little better with DX11, AMD a little (or much, depending on the game) better with DX12/Vulkan.
dr_rus
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(04-19-2017, 10:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by ColdDeckEd

Hasn't Vega been revealed to be using a different architecture than CGN/Fiji?

No, it's GCN5 and if it'll be similar to previous GCN updates we'll be looking at less than +10% performance from architectural improvements, which leads to the necessity of >50% of clock gain to Fiji to beat 1080Ti.

Originally Posted by Marmelade

I thought only the "MI8" was based on Fiji (basically a R9 Nano) and that Vega 10 would be something else entirely

It's still GCN so no, it won't be something completely new. From what was disclosed so far the biggest performance impacting feature is likely the TBIR mode (as in Maxwell+) but I feel that this will be pretty much irrelevant on an HBM2 powered top end chip. The rest is the usual GCN optimizations which will likely result in <10% gain.

Basically, after how Fiji and Polaris turned out, I prefer to not expect much from Vega.
Renekton
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(04-19-2017, 11:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by smoothj

Is it worth it to upgrade from my r9-280x to this?

I think I'm at the time to start thinking about it. Willing to spend up to $300 nvidia or and doesn't matter to me at this point just bang for my fuck. What do you guys think?

I really don't like the $200-300 segment as they are too close to the venerable 970/390. My suggestion is to try to top up to 1070 or wait to see if Vega has something for the $299.
johancruijff
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(04-19-2017, 11:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by pretty done

Problem is I've been waiting for them to release a GPU that is powerful enough for what I want and they haven't done it in about a year. They seem to only be interested in the budget market. It's annoying.

you're screaming at a waiter that is serving another table
dr_rus
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(04-19-2017, 12:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by billythemule

It's a bit of a shame that AMD didn't pair the RX500 series with faster memory like the GDDR5X or managed to crank up the memory clock speed. I feel like AMD cards really benefit from higher memory bandwidth. In some games, just increasing the core clock will do next to nothing.

GDDR5X seems more and more like NV exclusive thing from Micron so it's not a big surprise to see AMD ignoring it again. What I find surprising is that they haven't upgraded them to 9Gbps GDDR5 which is supposedly available now.
Memorabilia
Member
(04-19-2017, 12:36 PM)

Originally Posted by ethomaz

Same RX 480 with better clocks and more power consumption.

You can overclock your RX 480 to reach the exactly same result.

Yep. Pointless refresh for the most part. I was hoping yields might improve efficiency at similar clocks but it looks like the 580 consumes more power to achieve a paltry 3% advantage over the 480. Which, indeed, means this is basically a slightly OCed 480. Honestly, I fail to see the point of this other than AMD feeling its a chance to have a re-release of Polaris which was largely short-circuited by yield/supply problems for months. Oh well. I'll hang on to both my 480 and 1060 rigs until we see what Vega brings.

The real star of the show here could be if someone can manage to release a mini-ITX 470 and/or 480. Tho I don't think the latter is possible in a low profile form-factor given current thermo limitations, I wonder if the 470 could be stuffed under a LP HSF unit. The MSI 1050 Ti is a nice improvement over the 750 Ti in the LP ITX category...but it's way past time AMD get a card or two into this niche. Not having a decent AMD option for a LP GPU is a bummer.
Last edited by Memorabilia; 04-19-2017 at 12:38 PM.
Corpsepyre
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(04-19-2017, 12:39 PM)
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I think this will be an excellent upgrade from my R9 270x. What do you all think? This release it aimed at people like me.
Turin Turambar
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(04-19-2017, 12:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

Not particularly exciting, but no one expected it to be. Basically performs exactly like a slightly higher clocked 480.

I prefer techpowerUp graphic

DonMigs85
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(04-19-2017, 12:50 PM)
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Based on Anandtech's article Vega is supposed to introduce quite a few changes and enhancements like improved IPC, tiling, different memory access patterns/using onboard memory as a sort of fast virtual cache, and more. It's the biggest change since the transition from VLIW to GCN.
And Polaris was already a decent improvement in efficiency. Just compare the RX 460 to the R7 370, despite the latter's greater sp count and memory bandwidth the 460 often matches or exceeds it.
DonMigs85
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(04-19-2017, 12:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Memorabilia

Yep. Pointless refresh for the most part. I was hoping yields might improve efficiency at similar clocks but it looks like the 580 consumes more power to achieve a paltry 3% advantage over the 480. Which, indeed, means this is basically a slightly OCed 480. Honestly, I fail to see the point of this other than AMD feeling its a chance to have a re-release of Polaris which was largely short-circuited by yield/supply problems for months. Oh well. I'll hang on to both my 480 and 1060 rigs until we see what Vega brings.

The real star of the show here could be if someone can manage to release a mini-ITX 470 and/or 480. Tho I don't think the latter is possible in a low profile form-factor given current thermo limitations, I wonder if the 470 could be stuffed under a LP HSF unit. The MSI 1050 Ti is a nice improvement over the 750 Ti in the LP ITX category...but it's way past time AMD get a card or two into this niche. Not having a decent AMD option for a LP GPU is a bummer.

Ahem


There are low profile RX 460 cards, and the 550 and 560 will probably get LP variants too
Last edited by DonMigs85; 04-19-2017 at 12:58 PM.
capitalCORN
Member
(04-19-2017, 12:54 PM)

Originally Posted by Turin Turambar

I prefer techpowerUp graphic

Wow, so how many of these bad boys do you think AMD binned for this moment?

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