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LordOfLore
Member
(04-20-2017, 04:55 PM)
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Link.

“He then went into the history of China and Korea. Not North Korea, Korea. And you know, you’re talking about thousands of years . . . and many wars. And Korea actually used to be a part of China. And after listening for 10 minutes, I realized that it’s not so easy.”
— President Trump, interview with the Wall Street Journal, April 12, 2017

This claim was largely buried in news coverage of Trump’s wide-ranging interview with the Journal, during which he made numerous flip-flops on several policy areas. But it belatedly went viral in South Korea after a Quartz article Tuesday drew attention to it.

Trump’s inartful retelling of Sino-Korean history sparked widespread outrage among Koreans, who are particularly sensitive to the U.S. president’s rhetoric amid heightened tensions between North and South Korea. Leaders across the political spectrum criticized Trump’s characterization, calling it a clear distortion of history and an attempt to undermine Korean sovereignty.

Trump’s phrasing that the Korean Peninsula “actually used to be a part of China” may be his SparkNotes version, not a verbatim account of Xi’s history lesson. (The two spoke through interpreters.) The White House did not respond to our request for clarification.

Here’s a look at what was misleading about Trump’s claim. Perhaps it will help the president avoid future blunders as he wades into Northeast Asian geopolitics. (Full disclosure: This fact-checker was born in Seoul.)

Much more at the link.
Azuran
Member
(04-20-2017, 04:58 PM)
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Trump really wants the Korean War to resume.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(04-20-2017, 04:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Azuran

Trump really wants the Korean War to resume.

If it rightfully returns the territory to China, maybe it's for the best.
Atomic Playboy
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(04-20-2017, 04:59 PM)
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Perhaps it will help the president avoid future blunders as he wades into Northeast Asian geopolitics.

Literally nothing will help Trump avoid future blunders about anything. He has the intellectual curiosity of a wet postage stamp, and actively avoids trying to learn or retain information. He is an intellectual toddler regurgitating what he is told without comprehending meaning. The only difference is a toddler will eventually learn what the words mean.
Xando
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(04-20-2017, 05:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Azuran

Trump really wants the Korean War to resume.

Not only him but also american media
jelly
Member
(04-20-2017, 05:01 PM)
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Whoever talks to him last. It's so odd.

I would be wary of telling him anything and also see it as an opportunity.
Beartruck
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(04-20-2017, 05:03 PM)
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The fact its china that told him this is troubling. They're basically planting the seed in his head that its ok for china to take over Korea, like all of it.
ahoyhoy
Member
(04-20-2017, 05:03 PM)
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Love how our president is cool with parroting the propaganda of foreign leaders.

His advisers must shit themselves every time he says dumb shit like this.
Servbot24
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(04-20-2017, 05:04 PM)
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It's probably just because he's genuinely an idiot, but sometimes I do wonder if he's saying idiotic things intentionally to accomplish certain goals. I doubt his ego would allow for that though.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
women be talkin'!
vagina lips flappin'!
(04-20-2017, 05:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by jelly

Whoever talks to him last. It's so odd.

Yeah. :/

Dude has no principles or ideals. He's manipulated by whoever was in his ear last. Terrifying.
Dr Funfrock
Junior Member
(04-20-2017, 05:04 PM)
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But the korean peninsula was never a part of China..

I guess he'll agree to anything as long as the cake is delicious.
jelly
Member
(04-20-2017, 05:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Beartruck

The fact its china that told him this is troubling. They're basically planting the seed in his head that its ok for china to take over Korea, like all of it.

Trump bombs NK, China cleans up and gets a gift for their troubles.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(04-20-2017, 05:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Servbot24

It's probably just because he's genuinely an idiot, but sometimes I do wonder if he's saying idiotic things intentionally to accomplish certain goals. I doubt his ego would allow for that though.

I really think we're passed any possibility that he uses intentional manipulation or is playing 4D chess, etc.

He's clearly just a dummy who stumbled into the White House.
Laevateinn
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(04-20-2017, 05:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Beartruck

The fact its china that told him this is troubling. They're basically planting the seed in his head that its ok for china to take over Korea, like all of it.

This also gives them more leeway to be aggressive in other parts of Asia. China wants to claim the Senkaku Islands? It was theres at one time, might as well take it from Japan. Tibet used to be a tributary? Fuck off Dalai Lama. These next few years will be a nightmare internationally.
Linkstrikesback
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(04-20-2017, 05:11 PM)
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That's nice. The UK could use NA back now, since you're not going to give it to the natives, we might as well make our claim. Just leave the keys on the side when you're leaving at the end of the week, trumpet.
Ogodei
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(04-20-2017, 05:12 PM)
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The Yuan Empire, and the briefly unified Mongol Empire before that, saw the two (China and Korea) ruled jointly by the Mongols, while the Ming relinquished direct control in exchange for maintaining influence over Korea. Koreans, however, will contend that "sphere of influence" was all that Mongol/Yuan rule amounted to as well. Chinese, meanwhile, would contend that the Yuan Empire was China and not a non-Chinese empire, so you've got historical conceit from both camps that you have to unpack in these claims.

Kind of splitting hairs, though, as a lot of Empires used indirect rule as a facet of their domination. Rome's tendency for cultural homogenization was somewhat unique, historically.
Dr.Acula
Member
(04-20-2017, 05:13 PM)
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Did you know America used to be part of Spain?
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
(04-20-2017, 05:14 PM)
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OMG please don't give China a reason to gobble up Korea.
uncredited male
Member
(04-20-2017, 05:14 PM)
If I was a head of state meeting with Trump I would just start making shit up just to see if he parrots it without question.

"We would like to once again thank your country for coming to our defense when we were invaded by Jamaica."
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(04-20-2017, 05:16 PM)
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He really is the pure opposite of the fierce dealmaker he campaigned as.

More like "emptyheased pussy ready to be molded into whatever powerful others (even adversaries) need him to be".

Goddamn you middle America. Actual businessmen knew he was a weak little bitch but you saw him on reality TV playing the big serious business man and you believed it 😂 Bunch of marks.
ZealousD
Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
(04-20-2017, 05:16 PM)
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Maybe Xi actually told him Korea used to be part of China, just because they knew our dumbass President would believe that shit.

Maybe he'll believe them when they tell him those man-made islands in the South China Sea used to be a part of China as well.
dramatis
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(04-20-2017, 05:16 PM)
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Definitely not for China the country. I'll have to check the borders of the dynasties though.

Korea isn't going to be happy about this.
iRAWRasaurus
Member
(04-20-2017, 05:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by ahoyhoy

Love how our president is cool with parroting the propaganda of foreign leaders.

His advisers must shit themselves every time he says dumb shit like this.

Whoever he talks to last, is who he will agree with.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(04-20-2017, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by dramatis

Definitely not for China the country. I'll have to check the borders of the dynasties though.

Korea isn't going to be happy about this.

No. Not even dynastic China.

Korea was an independent state (or states) that was a tributary of China, nothing more.

They might as well claim other historical Chinese tributaries like Japan.. or England 😂
MetatronM
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(04-20-2017, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Beartruck

The fact its china that told him this is troubling. They're basically planting the seed in his head that its ok for china to take over Korea, like all of it.

I can guarantee you that this is the very first time he's ever heard or thought about anything involving the history of East Asia at all. Since this is a man who seems to believe just about everything he hears, it's not terribly surprising.
Pandora012
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(04-20-2017, 05:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Linkstrikesback

That's nice. The UK could use NA back now, since you're not going to give it to the natives, we might as well make our claim. Just leave the keys on the side when you're leaving at the end of the week, trumpet.

Are you talking the 13 states or all of NA including Canada, Mexico, and the other states?
EVOL 100%
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(04-20-2017, 05:26 PM)
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Well, maybe this will finally shut down the narrative of far-right dumbasses in Korea that the US is our awesome guardian that will never do no harm to this country

So thanks Trump, I guess, for giving left leaning parties plenty of ammo to counter the right wing for the next five years or so?

Just please don't start a war with North Korea with your absolute joke of a government, thanks
Last edited by EVOL 100%; 04-20-2017 at 05:29 PM.
guek
Banned
(04-20-2017, 05:27 PM)
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Yeah, fuck off Donny
StrategyFan
Member
(04-20-2017, 05:30 PM)
some two-thousand-year-old emperor might have considered it to be a subsidiary if they gave some tribute or something

lots of morons back then thought they owned the whole world. china's government is notorious for propagating this fantasy of imperial rule

it's about as useful as telling china to hand over most of their current territory to whoever is in charge of mongolia today
HappyBivouac
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(04-20-2017, 05:34 PM)
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This is hilarious. Basically Xi sees this guy and immediately pegs him as an idiot. He then proceeds to feed him the same propaganda they feed their citizens through education and state controlled media, knowing full well how easy this guy is to manipulate, and that he'll just believe and regurgitate. The best part is that it actually works.

I may not like him, but I can't fault Xi on that. He's smart and knows when he has the upper hand intellectually.

East Asia has an obviously very complex territorial history. You always see little spats between the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans over "we invented [such and such ancient tradition]!" It's not surprising when the leaders of these countries try to spread this kind of rhetoric, but to see the freaking POTUS parroting this shit is beyond priceless.
Last edited by HappyBivouac; 04-20-2017 at 05:36 PM.
Lesath
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(04-20-2017, 05:50 PM)
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Yeah, it was weird to see that the same sort of rhetoric I've heard before from my Chinese nationalist relatives come out of Trump's mouth.

Debates as to whether Korea was indeed part of Chinese territory aren't really relevant except for nationalistic pride, and as said before, even were that the case, the British can demand the return of the original 13 colonies, and Mongolia would be able to claim a sizeable portion of the land mass.
NoFaceNico
(04-20-2017, 06:04 PM)
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I wouldn't be opposed to China mowing over North Korea. It would give the NK people a huge jump in quality of life and hopefully liberate those concentration camps every western leader turns a blind eye to.

The biggest problem now would be the nuclear weapons issue. But really if it wasn't nukes deterring us from trying to resolve NK it would be their chem/bio weapons. It's a great deterrent and the Kim family knows it works.
4Tran
Member
(04-20-2017, 06:05 PM)
I suspect that this is something that Trump just imagined to be true, or he badly misinterpreted what ever the Chinese leaders said. I don't think that Chinese politicians ever talk about Korea as part of China, and the one time that Korea was controlled directly by a Chinese capital was by a Mongolian emperor! Besides, modern China is only interested in maintaining the territory that was controlled by Qing China, of which Korea was a tributary state but still quite independent.

I suspect what actually happened is that a Chinese official said that Koreans are a significant minority inside China, and Trump pulled a Trump on it. I'd expect that the Chinese government will issue an official statement to fix Trump's screwup.

Originally Posted by NoFaceNico

I wouldn't be opposed to China mowing over North Korea. It would give the NK people a huge jump in quality of life and hopefully liberate those concentration camps every western leader turns a blind eye to.

China would rather North Korea be someone else's problem so that's not going to happen.
Quixzlizx
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(04-20-2017, 06:06 PM)
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I'm imagining Trump acting like some random nobody off the street who is thrown into the role of President. Said person would probably instantly realize he's way over his head and just nod along with whomever's in the room so as not to expose his complete ignorance of every issue.

He just also happens to be a racist piece-of-shit narcissist on top of that.
Palmer_v1
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(04-20-2017, 06:09 PM)
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It's a damn good thing we United States of Americans have always lived here and no part of our country was ever controlled by a different group than us white Christians.
Angelus Errare
this looks like one of those Final Fantasy games lionhead always makes
(04-20-2017, 06:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Palmer_v1

It's a damn good thing we United States of Americans have always lived here and no part of our country was ever controlled by a different group than us white Christians.

Our country came from Gawd himself.
Brakke
(04-20-2017, 06:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Beartruck

The fact its china that told him this is troubling. They're basically planting the seed in his head that its ok for china to take over Korea, like all of it.

Is that a fact, though? Or did Dumb Dumb Don misunderstand some other comment? It's definitely troubling that that was Trump's takeaway but who knows how he came to it.
Crab
Famed for his Europa Universalis IV exploits
(04-20-2017, 06:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by BocoDragon

No. Not even dynastic China.

Korea was an independent state (or states) that was a tributary of China, nothing more.

They might as well claim other historical Chinese tributaries like Japan.. or England 😂

Under Yuan it was an outright vassal state rather than just a tributary - the darughachi essentially dictated policy. That said, you then have the debate over whether the Yuan actually were China.
ScatheZombie
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(04-20-2017, 06:25 PM)
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Oh, that's how that works?

Well, shit, Mongolia is about to get really big then.
shiftplusone
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(04-20-2017, 06:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Linkstrikesback

That's nice. The UK could use NA back now, since you're not going to give it to the natives, we might as well make our claim. Just leave the keys on the side when you're leaving at the end of the week, trumpet.

Looks like the border wall is going to be a real fucked up thing, once california and texas and most of those in between with also part of oklahoma and all that is given back to mexico

and I guess France and Spain get their shit back too

and then yeah the british can have their territories back

man this is a mess



this man is a mess
Angelus Errare
this looks like one of those Final Fantasy games lionhead always makes
(04-20-2017, 06:30 PM)
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I think the best part of this is all of the conservatives on Twitter trying to educate Korea on it's state of affairs when they can't name the 49 other states in America.
PeskyToaster
(04-20-2017, 06:30 PM)
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He's not that wrong. China has always been a dominant power in the region.
4Tran
Member
(04-20-2017, 06:31 PM)

Originally Posted by Crab

Under Yuan it was an outright vassal state rather than just a tributary - the darughachi essentially dictated policy. That said, you then have the debate over whether the Yuan actually were China.

I think that the Yuan Dynasty is specifically regarded as a non-Chinese empire. I don't think that even staunch Chinese nationalists try to portray Mongol accomplishments as Chinese ones.
andythinkpad
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(04-20-2017, 06:32 PM)
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That's it, he is going sell Taiwan back to China.
legend166
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(04-20-2017, 06:36 PM)
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Strange reference upcoming:

If people have seen the "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" movies, you know how there's the running joke that the old dude thinks Greece invented everything? I feel like that's what China thinks when it comes to territory. Everything used to be apart of China.
Apharmd
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(04-20-2017, 06:36 PM)
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Easy D needs to shut the fuck up.
VendettaRed07
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(04-20-2017, 06:38 PM)
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Needlessly pissing off one of our closest allies at a time when we need their support the most yet again.

Good job idiot
kiri
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(04-20-2017, 06:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by BocoDragon

If it rightfully returns the territory to China, maybe it's for the best.

Wait.....wtf?
PeskyToaster
(04-20-2017, 06:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by 4Tran

I think that the Yuan Dynasty is specifically regarded as a non-Chinese empire. I don't think that even staunch Chinese nationalists try to portray Mongol accomplishments as Chinese ones.

The Qing dynasty was well. I don't know of its status in the perceptions of modern Chinese people but it was a non-Chinese dynasty.
Balphon
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(04-20-2017, 06:43 PM)
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And Texas actually used to be part of Mexico.

And Iowa actually used to be part of France.

This is fun.

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