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Alx
Member
(04-21-2017, 09:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by KingSnake

Were the previous attempted murders also due to radicalisation or the guy is just nuts and has an obsession against the police?

Mostly nuts apparently, according to Le Monde he didn't show any link to terrorism until recently when he expressed new threatening messages against the police.
Just heard on Cnews : in 2001 he shot at people after a car accident, and then when arrested managed to steal a weapon and shoot at policemen in the station.
azyless
Member
(04-21-2017, 09:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by KingSnake

Were the previous attempted murders also due to radicalisation or the guy is just nuts and has an obsession against the police?

Radicalisation in 2001 was basically non existent so I'd say he's just obsessed with police.
KingSnake
The Birthday Skeleton
(04-21-2017, 09:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alx

Mostly nuts apparently, according to Le Monde he didn't show any link to terrorism until recently when he expressed new threatening messages against the police.
Just heard on Cnews : in 2001 he shot at people after a car accident, and then when arrested managed to steal a weapon and shoot at policemen in the station.

A lot of sociopaths are finding a new "life" under the sponsorship of ISIS.
Last edited by KingSnake; 04-21-2017 at 09:45 AM.
Alx
Member
(04-21-2017, 09:41 AM)
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"Fun" fact : the name mentioned in the ISIS claim doesn't match the shooter, but another guy who was suspected and interrogated in Antwerp. They may have accidentally outed one of their men...
Airola
Member
(04-21-2017, 09:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jindrax

Ofc it does, my post doesn't deny any of that, but everyone here and in the media and in politics seems to turn a complete blind eye is to "WHY is so easy to indoctrinate and convince these specific people to commit these atrocities?".

What I'm saying is that maybe what you think is the cause of this, is merely the tool, and the actually cause is a lot more complex than just pointing the finger at religion, immigration etc.

Everyone here and in the media and in politics? Really?
Pretty often especially here whenever a terrorist attack of some sort happens people bring up how afraid they are of the far right now taking over. And many are saying we shouldn't give in to fear because that only helps the terrorists. This is not a thing that is ignored especially here.



However, religious terrorism is not a thing that needs people to be discriminated at first. Most of these ISIS attacks still happen in countries where muslims are the majority. How are they exactly discriminated there the way they might be discriminated here?

The one thing these terrorist especially need for their cause to exist is to have a world with things the religion doesn't approve.

This doesn't suddenly become a lesser reason when the perpetrator lives in the west.

These people are attacking other muslims too. All they need for that is to know the other muslims don't live by the rules the terrorists would like them to live. For them seeing peace loving muslims live in a world of pornography and blasphemy and whatever else they see the west is guilty of producing is a reason to think their work is necessary.

And no, some of the terrorists themselves not living by the rules doesn't mean this isn't a factor behind the reasoning. Those people might see that just as a proof of the west and its vices getting into their heads too, and to reduce the feel of blame and self hatred they feel they have to be part of destroying that sort of evil.

They have no trouble with chopping off the hands and executing people of their own if they see them doing things the religion doesn't approve. Even if the west wouldn't exist, these nuts would make sure "the western lifestyle" wouldn't infiltrate their world.

They will not stop if far right rules the world. They will not stop if far left rules the world. They will not stop if the moderate center rules the world. They stop only if they rule the world and even then they would attack the fellow muslims if they felt they were not living by the rules. This is a problem that needs to be addressed for the sake of both non-muslims and muslims in the world.

And it's definitely even more complex thing than what just adding the discrimination of muslims in the west to the equation.
ClosingADoor
Member
(04-21-2017, 09:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alx

He got 15 years, shortened to 10.
I don't think locking people up longer would change much, you're just postponing the issue. Unless you lock everybody up for life, but that's actually illegal.
The focus should probably be put on reinsertion of convicted people, since apparently many of them leave prison in a worse state of mind than when they entered.

We can't keep locking everyone up forever, but whenever these situations occur, it always seems they are known by police and have a large record of crime. Which is hard to explain to people, why they are still walking around freely. I mean, 10 years for 3 attempted murders? Seems rather low to me.

But the radicalization France, Belgium and other countries have in their prisons is also a large issue. You throw someone in for shoplifting, they come out a drug dealer, then a terrorist. How this can be solved, I have no clue. Maybe smaller prisons, smaller groups of people, splitting up the radicalized people so they can't influence others as easily. But then, who is going to pay for all this stuff of course.

Originally Posted by KingSnake

A lot of sociopaths are finding a new "life" under the sponsorship of ISIS.

Maybe even them trying to finally get in the spotlight they feel they deserve, leading to copycat behavior sadly.
MistakenMobius
Member
(04-21-2017, 09:50 AM)

Originally Posted by ClosingADoor

We can't keep locking everyone up forever, but whenever these situations occur, it always seems they are known by police and have a large record of crime. Which is hard to explain to people, why they are still walking around freely. I mean, 10 years for 3 attempted murders? Seems rather low to me.

But the radicalization France, Belgium and other countries have in their prisons is also a large issue. You throw someone in for shoplifting, they come out a drug dealer, then a terrorist. How this can be solved, I have no clue. Maybe smaller prisons, smaller groups of people, splitting up the radicalized people so they can't influence others as easily. But then, who is going to pay for all this stuff of course.

More prisons.
Decriminalize pot.

And maybe solitary confinment for known Islamist proselytizing people.
KingSnake
The Birthday Skeleton
(04-21-2017, 09:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by ClosingADoor


But the radicalization France, Belgium and other countries have in their prisons is also a large issue. You throw someone in for shoplifting, they come out a drug dealer, then a terrorist.

This seems to be a systemic issue, indeed. There must be some solutions for it. I don't think finding money for more prisons or a differently organised prison system is such a big issue for a country like France for example.
NutJobJim
(04-21-2017, 09:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Hypron

She might get a small boost to her first round results but I doubt it'll carry over to the second round, and I doubt it'll make up for the current difference between her and Macron and probably Melenchon in the second round. From my understanding she polls quite closely with Fillon in the second round, so it would be a bigger issue if that matchup were to happen.

My fear is that terrorism is causing some Liberal and progressive people to turn further and further to the right out of fear.

I am currently engaged in daily debate with a university friend of mine that was a Philosophy major and the textbook definition of a Liberal just five years ago. He now intends to vote Conservative in the UK General Election and actually said today that he hopes Le Penn now wins in France which was really shocking for me to hear.

His logic is that by voting right now we can hopefully avoid things getting any worse (in terms of terrorism in particular) as he is worried that the very far right will rise in power should attacks like this continue. So basically, vote right wing now to avoid extreme right wing gaining power later.

Its flawed logic in my opinion but I worry that more and more people are going to turn to the right for answers.
chromatic9
Member
(04-21-2017, 10:49 AM)
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In Greece there have been protests by Greek parents that muslims and muslim refugees should not be going to their schools.

These kids are integrating fine. The parents actually want their kids to grow up and be like Greek citizens and have a job (yes we know Greece has hit hard times). They don't demand anything or put their religion first. So fucked if you do and fucked if you don't.

I was really heartened by the parents attitude to integrate, who are trying to do the right thing..
Systolique
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(04-21-2017, 12:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by NutJobJim

His logic is that by voting right now we can hopefully avoid things getting any worse (in terms of terrorism in particular) as he is worried that the very far right will rise in power should attacks like this continue. So basically, vote right wing now to avoid extreme right wing gaining power later.

Tell your friend he isn't very smart and should give up debating ; there is nobody at the right of Le Pen, she is the most extreme right political party in France already.

But Le Pen is completely insane and would make the country less safer, if elected president she would expulse every "fichier S" (people that are under suspicion of working against the country), something that every single intelligence officer has warned not to do, as it is information that leads you to stop other attacks on your soil and in other countries.

There's also the little thing where if you completely destroy, divide and despair a country, it gets much easier to make it crack and fall, which is what would happen since a strong majority of our country absolutely and literally hate her on every levels, a level of despise you don't find at any other candidate.

The regular right candidate is Fillon from "Les R├ępublicains".
Last edited by Systolique; 04-21-2017 at 12:05 PM.
NutJobJim
(04-21-2017, 12:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Systolique

Tell your friend he isn't very smart and should give up debating ; there is nobody at the right of Le Pen, she is the most extreme right political party in France already.

But Le Pen is completely insane and would make the country less safer, if elected president she would expulse every "fichier S" (people that are under suspicion of working against the country), something that every single intelligence officer has warned not to do, as it is information that leads you to stop other attacks on your soil and in other countries.

There's also the little thing where if you completely destroy, divide and despair a country, it gets much easier to make it crack and fall, which is what would happen since a strong majority of our country absolutely and literally hate her on every levels, a level of despise you don't find at any other candidate.

The regular right candidate is Fillon from "Les R├ępublicains".

In all fairness to him I don't think he follows French politics much and was using that explanation more for his justification of voting Conservative in the UK. He feels very strongly that we need to eradicate radical Islam and it seems that radical Islam is what is guiding his political stance more than any other issue.

It was still a very stupid statement to make though and I couldn't believe someone that was so liberal just a few years ago could be that right leaning now (he has also spent the last five years teaching in South Korea and I have noticed that he has become far more conservative in that timeframe).
Empyrean Heaven
Member
(04-21-2017, 02:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Xando

So this guy was from Belgium?


English media almost exclusively focuses on her for whatever reason.

Totally ignoring that she might not even win the first round according to polls which is something i wouldn't have thought 2 months ago.

Because she's Trump with boobs, essentially, and the fact that's she's even in the running when Le Front National was seen as basically the French KKK in the 80s is another cause of the swath of far-right nationalism throughout the world, from Brexit to Trump.
Xisiqomelir
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(04-21-2017, 03:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

There is nothing ISIS can do that will ever be able to compete with the massive ammount of fuckery that the far right rising would do. I mean you can just look at history.

Well currently they hold hundreds of thousands of people in thrall and post disturbing murder porn of them sawing people's heads off.
TTOOLL
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(04-21-2017, 03:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

There is nothing ISIS can do that will ever be able to compete with the massive ammount of fuckery that the far right rising would do. I mean you can just look at history.


So, Le Pen is worse than ISIS. Ok dude, you gotta fight the good fight. Say anything, no matter how absurd, to fit the narrative.
Kayhan
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(04-21-2017, 04:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

There is nothing ISIS can do that will ever be able to compete with the massive ammount of fuckery that the far right rising would do. I mean you can just look at history.

What the actual fuck. ISIS is a real life horror show. Torture, murder and rape.
Omnipunctual Godot
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

There is nothing ISIS can do that will ever be able to compete with the massive ammount of fuckery that the far right rising would do. I mean you can just look at history.

Incredible.
AcademicSaucer
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(04-21-2017, 04:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

There is nothing ISIS can do that will ever be able to compete with the massive ammount of fuckery that the far right rising would do. I mean you can just look at history.

Well then ...
T.O.P
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(04-21-2017, 04:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

There is nothing ISIS can do that will ever be able to compete with the massive ammount of fuckery that the far right rising would do. I mean you can just look at history.

welp
BernardoOne
Banned
(04-21-2017, 04:33 PM)

Originally Posted by Kayhan

What the actual fuck. ISIS is a real life horror show. Torture, murder and rape.

What do you think far right end extremists end goals result in? Flowers and world peace?

Originally Posted by Xisiqomelir

Well currently they hold hundreds of thousands of people in thrall and post disturbing murder porn of them sawing people's heads off.

Yes, far right governments have never held hundreds of thousands or even millions of people and tortured and murdered them in masse, no sir.


In terms of actual threats to the EU, far right extremists are a massively bigger and more dangerous threat than ISIS. This is just facts.
Last edited by BernardoOne; 04-21-2017 at 04:36 PM.
dave is ok
Banned
(04-21-2017, 05:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alx

Mostly nuts apparently, according to Le Monde he didn't show any link to terrorism until recently when he expressed new threatening messages against the police.
Just heard on Cnews : in 2001 he shot at people after a car accident, and then when arrested managed to steal a weapon and shoot at policemen in the station.

Pretty sure a friend of his mom said he watched jihadist propaganda all day on the internet too.
Vollume
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(04-21-2017, 05:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

What do you think far right end extremists end goals result in? Flowers and world peace?


Yes, far right governments have never held hundreds of thousands or even millions of people and tortured and murdered them in masse, no sir.


In terms of actual threats to the EU, far right extremists are a massively bigger and more dangerous threat than ISIS. This is just facts.

Only an antifa would say anything close to this shit.
BernardoOne
Banned
(04-21-2017, 05:29 PM)

Originally Posted by Vollume

Only an antifa would say anything close to this shit.

Only an antifa would look at the history of far right extremist movements in europe? Ok then. Mind you that electing far right extremists is the exact result ISIS wants. It only benefits them, no one else.
Last edited by BernardoOne; 04-21-2017 at 05:49 PM.
krazen
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(04-21-2017, 05:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vollume

Only an antifa would say anything close to this shit.

Or a minority that would be persecuted by such a severe political change.

While we shouldnt have to make the compare/contrast to ISIS lets not act like the far right doesn't hasnt sent plenty of bodies in cemeteries over the years, often violently, in addition to suppression of freedoms.

Arguably your radical muslims are basically the 'end game' for the far right...its basically all the far right; you have those same basic ideals, "We should come first, not the outsiders. Conformity over individuality if we are to be great, etc". Its basically under the same umbrella; its just one group has been able to take it to its ghoulish endgame where genocide and lack of woman rights are par on course. Give the modern far-right/alt-right time to catch up, lol.
Last edited by krazen; 04-21-2017 at 05:38 PM.
Tagyhag
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(04-21-2017, 05:46 PM)
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If you think electing Le Pen means that terrorist attacks would stop and ISIS would be weakened you.are.an.idiot.

It's like believing all of Trump's lies. These people WANT you to be afraid, they WANT you to fear vote.
michaelius
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(04-21-2017, 06:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by ClosingADoor

So the guy was convicted for 3 attempted murders already of which 2 on police officers. He is 39 years old. How are the sentences for this stuff in France that you can walk around freely again.

A lot of times these terrorists have already done crimes and police are watching them. Is it really not possible to lock people up longer at least...

Well that's the "beauty" of European law systems - you are totally fucked up if you dare to hurt criminal in self defense but he will be out in no time because sentences here are a joke.

We put so much emphasis on rehabilitation that we completely forgot about making sure that criminals won't ever hurt another innocent person.
azyless
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(04-21-2017, 06:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by michaelius

Well that's the "beauty" of European law systems - you are totally fucked up if you dare to hurt criminal in self defense but he will be out in no time because sentences here are a joke.

We put so much emphasis on rehabilitation that we completely forgot about making sure that criminals won't ever hurt another innocent person.

He did 15 years for attempted murder, I wouldn't call that "a joke".
Seems to be pretty much the same time you'd do in the USA btw, since I imagine that's your reference with the whole self-defense crap.
Alx
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(04-21-2017, 06:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by michaelius

We put so much emphasis on rehabilitation that we completely forgot about making sure that criminals won't ever hurt another innocent person.

Rehabilitation is precisely the only way you can prevent a criminal from hurting another person in the future. Unless you support death penalty (but even when we had it, what he did for his first convictions wouldn't have lead him to the guillotine).
BobbyRobby
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(04-21-2017, 06:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by krazen

Or a minority that would be persecuted by such a severe political change.

While we shouldnt have to make the compare/contrast to ISIS lets not act like the far right doesn't hasnt sent plenty of bodies in cemeteries over the years, often violently, in addition to suppression of freedoms.

Arguably your radical muslims are basically the 'end game' for the far right...its basically all the far right; you have those same basic ideals, "We should come first, not the outsiders. Conformity over individuality if we are to be great, etc". Its basically under the same umbrella; its just one group has been able to take it to its ghoulish endgame where genocide and lack of woman rights are par on course. Give the modern far-right/alt-right time to catch up, lol.

Alright dude, so has the far left. And it was far more bodies if you wanna play that game.

You're stretching to defend what was a pretty ridiculous statement.
Mass_Pincup
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(04-21-2017, 06:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by michaelius

Well that's the "beauty" of European law systems - you are totally fucked up if you dare to hurt criminal in self defense but he will be out in no time because sentences here are a joke.

We put so much emphasis on rehabilitation that we completely forgot about making sure that criminals won't ever hurt another innocent person.

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There's always a risk of former prisoners committing crimes on release unless you want to lock them away forever. Rehabilitation ensure that this risk is kept to a minimum. We actually have way better stats on recidivism then in the US.

Like 38% as opposed to 70% in the US.

And your "self defence" rhetoric is quite funny after the Theo and Adama's affairs.
Last edited by Mass_Pincup; 04-21-2017 at 07:00 PM.
CSJ
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:36 PM)

Originally Posted by Alx

Rehabilitation is precisely the only way you can prevent a criminal from hurting another person in the future.

It really isn't and I know you didn't say so, but it's far from working every time either.
Tagyhag
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(04-21-2017, 06:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by michaelius

Well that's the "beauty" of European law systems - you are totally fucked up if you dare to hurt criminal in self defense but he will be out in no time because sentences here are a joke.

We put so much emphasis on rehabilitation that we completely forgot about making sure that criminals won't ever hurt another innocent person.

Look up recidivism.
dave is ok
Banned
(04-21-2017, 06:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by azyless

He did 15 years for attempted murder, I wouldn't call that "a joke".

Seems to be pretty much the same time you'd do in the USA btw, since I imagine that's your reference with the whole self-defense crap.

Attempted murder on a police officer in the US would result in a minimum 20 year sentence. If it was multiple charges of it, I don't think there is any way he would be out in 15 years.
BernardoOne
Banned
(04-21-2017, 06:41 PM)

Originally Posted by BobbyRobby

Alright dude, so has the far left. And it was far more bodies if you wanna play that game.

You're stretching to defend what was a pretty ridiculous statement.

Is ISIS a far left movement? Is the far left rising in Europe? Because if not I don't see how is that relevant at all.
Alx
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(04-21-2017, 06:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by CSJ

It really isn't and I know you didn't say so, but it's far from working every time either.

It's just logic, when you catch a criminal, either you keep him in jail until he dies, or you release him at some point. And if you release him, you need some kind of rehabilitation to make sure (or more likely anyway) that he won't commit more crime. That's actually what defines rehabilitation : turning a potentially dangerous person into someone safe. It doesn't work all the time indeed, but what else can you do ?
Now there are many ways we could work on that rehabilitation, but the purpose is still the same.
CSJ
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:43 PM)

Originally Posted by Tagyhag

Look up recidivism.

Victims really don't care about it, what you think.

If I was directly effected I'd be looking to find who thought it was a good idea to let him out and make sure they never get to make that decision again, they're probably protected from those decisions too, sadly.
Because if it doesn't happen all too often in cases like these, then it shouldn't be a problem firing them and making them find a new job, they get to live and carry on with their lives.

Originally Posted by Alx

It's just logic, when you catch a criminal, either you keep him in jail until he dies, or you release him at some point. And if you release him, you need some kind of rehabilitation to make sure (or more likely anyway) that he won't commit more crime. That's actually what defines rehabilitation : turning a potentially dangerous person into someone safe. It doesn't work all the time indeed, but what else can you do ?
Now there are many ways we could work on that rehabilitation, but the purpose is still the same.

You're right, there's nothing else we can do.
Last edited by CSJ; 04-21-2017 at 06:45 PM.
Madness
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(04-21-2017, 06:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jindrax

Tell us more white man on how to treat 'foreigners'.

How many of these extremists are born here in the west? So many. Why are they so pissed off? Stuck in poverty? Stuck in ghetto's with no way out treated like crap by the white authority figure? Hell. It doesn't even matter here i need Belgium you still get treated like a second class citizen just having a different skin colour.

How do I know this? I'm a Belgian born here, tax attorney in one of the countries highest ranked offices. Yet every single day I'm reminded I'm not the same as the rest and that i never will be. So before you start preaching your nonsense. Maybe know the situation​ here and that the issues aren't simple as you think. Maybe start looking at the issues that the natives are causing and are making worst every day.

Not only are you racist for assuming I am white, but you're actually stating that it is the natives that are the reason Muslim Europeans are committing more terror attacks because they may be a second class citizen? Why is it no Sikhs in the US or UK are mowing down innocents with trucks or AK-47's, not only do they have the same skin color but often have beards and turbans and are more likely to be seen as Muslims than muslims actually are. Why are there no Christian or Jewish middle easterners who also have the same color of skin, face same racial barriers doing it? Why are there few to no African or black Europeans (Non-Muslim) of course who are probably brutalized far more by the authority, living in slums committing terrorist attacks? Your very attempt to deflect blame shows you are incapable of looking objectively.
ClosingADoor
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(04-21-2017, 06:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

Is ISIS a far left movement? Is the far left rising in Europe? Because if not I don't see how is that relevant at all.

So we can't compare ISIS to far left. But we can to far right. But they are neither. You make no sense.
BernardoOne
Banned
(04-21-2017, 06:46 PM)

Originally Posted by ClosingADoor

So we can't compare ISIS to far left. But we can to far right. But they are neither. You make no sense.

I'm not comparing neither, i'm saying that the rise of far right extremism is a much bigger threat to Europe than Isis themselves are.
ClosingADoor
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(04-21-2017, 06:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

I'm not comparing neither, i'm saying that the rise of far right extremism is a much bigger threat to Europe than Isis themselves are.

It's one and the same issue though. You fix terrorism, you take away the perceived need for the far right for the most part. Problem is, you can't really fix terrorism (neither can the far right do that).
Nivash
(04-21-2017, 06:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by CSJ

Victims really don't care about it, what you think.

If I was directly effected I'd be looking to find who thought it was a good idea to let him out and make sure they never get to make that decision again, they're probably protected from those decisions too, sadly.
Because if it doesn't happen all too often in cases like these, then it shouldn't be a problem firing them and making them find a new job, they get to live and carry on with their lives.



You're right, there's nothing else we can do.

That doesn't make any sense. Recidivism is a calculated risk in any system unless you propose death or life sentences for everyone. It's not possible to expect those judging parole or clemency decisions to be sooth-sayers, there will always be people who go on to continue committing crimes. Some may not even intend to on the day of release, only to fall back in the habit later on. How are you supposed to prevent that? You're proposing pointlessly punishing people who could have done nothing to prevent things like this, really. Especially since he had a timed sentence - he would have been released eventually either way.
ClosingADoor
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(04-21-2017, 06:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nivash

That doesn't make any sense. Recidivism is a calculated risk in any system unless you propose death or life sentences for everyone. It's not possible to expect those judging parole or clemency decisions to be sooth-sayers, there will always be people who go on to continue committing crimes. Some may not even intend to on the day of release, only to fall back in the habit later on. How are you supposed to prevent that? You're proposing pointlessly punishing people who could have done nothing to prevent things like this, really. Especially since he had a timed sentence - he would have been released eventually either way.

Recidivism isn't so much a problem, when it comes to crimes that don't impact the victim as much as this. When we are talking attempted murder, rape, murder, those kind of things, Europe is too soft for criminals and the victims are left behind thinking: if this it? Is my suffering I have to deal with for the rest of my life only worth a few years in jail?

It's a tough issue. Where is the line, can we keep people locked up forever, how do we make the call someone won't repeat. I don't have the answers also. But too many times we see criminals radicalize and then it is perfectly normal to question the system that puts them out on the street again. It's a good discussion to have and we should not just accept that people do crime again, but want better from our institutions.
Tagyhag
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(04-21-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by CSJ

Victims really don't care about it, what you think.

If I was directly effected I'd be looking to find who thought it was a good idea to let him out and make sure they never get to make that decision again, they're probably protected from those decisions too, sadly.
Because if it doesn't happen all too often in cases like these, then it shouldn't be a problem firing them and making them find a new job, they get to live and carry on with their lives.

That's understandable, most victims would want their attacker dead or in jail for life. But that's not how life works.

When you have a criminal there's 4 scenarios, they're either in death row, life in jail, jail that just punishes, or jail that's for rehabilitation.

We have to have our jails be more about rehabilitation than punishment.
Nivash
(04-21-2017, 07:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by ClosingADoor

Recidivism isn't so much a problem, when it comes to crimes that don't impact the victim as much as this. When we are talking attempted murder, rape, murder, those kind of things, Europe is too soft for criminals and the victims are left behind thinking: if this it? Is my suffering I have to deal with for the rest of my life only worth a few years in jail?

It's a tough issue. Where is the line, can we keep people locked up forever, how do we make the call someone won't repeat. I don't have the answers also. But too many times we see criminals radicalize and then it is perfectly normal to question the system that puts them out on the street again. It's a good discussion to have and we should not just accept that people do crime again, but want better from our institutions.

I mostly turned against the idea that poster had to go after the correctional officers for something they can't possibly be considered at fault for. But sure, there's a discussion to be had about the prison systems of Europe. I'm more concerned about what pushes people towards crime in the first place and, in the case Islamic extremism, if there is radicalisation taking place in the justice system itself. I'm not sure if there are any studies done on the latter but on the former, I don't think there's any doubt at this point that the otherisation of large sections of the European population plays a big part. This goes both for people with an immigration background but also with the dying working class in general.

Now, what can be done about that isn't something I have an answer to.

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