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Neptonic
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(04-21-2017, 03:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fuchsdh


I hate that they neutered Daisy Fitzroy in Burial at Sea. Having her be a puppet was far less interesting than her completely understandable desire to burn the Founders down to the ground.

At least it made the RANDOM ATTEMPTED CHILD MURDER make sense
Fuchsdh
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(04-21-2017, 03:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Neptonic

At least it made the RANDOM ATTEMPTED CHILD MURDER make sense

What didn't make sense? She wanted to kill any Founder, no matter the age.

Not like revolutionaries have spared children much in history.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
(04-21-2017, 03:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Z_Y

Shouldn't take much. They are equally good. If not the whole of B2 then definitely Minerva's Den. B2 has the best moment to moment gameplay, imo. The story is not up to the level of the others though.

It's funny because I honestly didn't think the story to Minerva's Den was much better than stock B2 story--I felt like I saw the twist at the beginning of the thing, IIRC. But the progression of weapon acquisition was laid out in a way that was much more satisfying.

Bioshock 2 deserves credit also for gameplay innovations like the Little Sister Harvest standoffs and the Big Sister battles. Sadly the underwater segments were a placed where I expected more new wrinkles, as you played as a Big Daddy now, but they were mostly perfunctory.

Fortunately Soma came out later, and more than delivered on those environments and their intrinsic fear I often suffer from: thalassophobia.
AJ_Wings
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(04-21-2017, 04:30 AM)
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Playing this game downsampled from 4K to 1440P is gob smacking. No matter my criticisms of the game & it story, it is one of the most wonderful looking games I've ever played.
Salz01
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(04-21-2017, 04:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by AJ_Wings

Playing this game downsampled from 4K to 1440P is gob smacking. No matter my criticisms of the game & it story, it is one of the most wonderful looking games I've ever played.

I echo this. This game in 4K is mind blowing.
Released
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(04-21-2017, 04:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by BocoDragon

I mean it's basically every revolution. All people's revolutions tend to have really dark sides.

I think some of the backlash is honestly from people who have a "Star Wars" level naive idealism about the pure goodness of working class revolution.

I think a lot of students of history would look at the barbaric overreach of the Vox Populi and think "yup.. that's about right".

So looking at American history (and the game does seem very concerned with the legacy of America), was the struggle for black equality violent? Especially with respect to the oppressed? Does the game make ANY attempt to justify the Vox Populi twist as a legacy of oppression being handed down? No, it doesn't. Booker and Elizabeth both draw (false) moral equivalency in their dialog.

And to top it off, the game ends up not being concerned with any of this at all. It retreats into its boring lore, incapable of saying anything meaningful about the external world or humanity.
MrBS
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(04-21-2017, 05:09 AM)
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I forced myself through the game and story and despised both. Much like the how the vanilla experience got so much praise I was perplexed over why I kept hearing that the DLC was better. I thought it was to the same appalling standard as the vanilla experience.

Going all in was something of a regret but I don't think waiting would have dulled my desire to play it. It's still divisive now and it reviewed well so I would have ploughed through it at some point.

Bioshock 2 for life yo.
Z_Y
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(04-21-2017, 05:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Imbarkus

It's funny because I honestly didn't think the story to Minerva's Den was much better than stock B2 story--I felt like I saw the twist at the beginning of the thing, IIRC. But the progression of weapon acquisition was laid out in a way that was much more satisfying.

Bioshock 2 deserves credit also for gameplay innovations like the Little Sister Harvest standoffs and the Big Sister battles. Sadly the underwater segments were a placed where I expected more new wrinkles, as you played as a Big Daddy now, but they were mostly perfunctory.

Fortunately Soma came out later, and more than delivered on those environments and their intrinsic fear I often suffer from: thalassophobia.


I loved B2. I loved setting up for battles while the little sisters harvested. I just don't recall the story though. That's why I said that. Maybe time for a replay.
MikeBreezy92
History's 378th Most
Lustful Bolivian Superhero
(04-21-2017, 05:23 AM)
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One of my favorite games of all time straight up.

Any one who praises the "political commentary" however I feel missed the point of this game narrative. That part of the game is just dressing and while that disappoints people it fits with the game so well, I actually enjoyed that.
Last edited by MikeBreezy92; 04-21-2017 at 05:28 AM.
Redd
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:25 AM)
Songbird was a lot of wasted potential imo.
ForkNetwork
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(04-21-2017, 05:28 AM)
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Top 10 GOAT

I love the characters so much
SirPinkyNose
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(04-21-2017, 05:34 AM)
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The part where the Vox round up people for mass execution regardless of reasons reminds me of the Vietnamese revolution.
nightstalker962
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(04-21-2017, 05:36 AM)
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Game was pretty phenomenal. Art style, story, level design it was a very immersive game. Also graphics are nuts for last gen console standards.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
(04-21-2017, 06:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Redd

Songbird was a lot of wasted potential imo.

Another key example of the trailer rolling out a render of good intentions that didn't come to pass really in the game.

Imagine this game's reception without that trailer!
Sande
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(04-21-2017, 06:24 AM)
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I wasn't a huge fan at the time. I'm planning to give it another shot with the HD collection.

My dislike for it pretty much comes down to 3 things:

1. The story is not half as clever and coherent it thinks it is.

2. The gameplay is just not Bioshock. What I mean by this is that every other fight is you stepping over an invisible line into a combat arena and enemies start pouring in from everywhere. It was much more natural in Bioshock and you had way more freedom in how to proceed through the levels and when/how to engage in combat. Like, Bioshock had well designed levels with enemies in them. Infinite, for the most part, has clearly separated combat sections and exploration sections.

3. I found the capitalism commentary of the original much more interesting and better explored than the "Racism, am I right?" of Infinite.

Originally Posted by SweetJohnnyCage

I thought the hook sliding was fun, but that was about it. The combat of Bioshock was intense because you never really knew when it was coming, most of the time. You were always skulking around a city in ruins and you'd just have to deal with what came in inventive ways, especially with big daddies and big sisters in 2. Infinite ruined that by making every combat sequence take place inside of some sort of arena that you'd walk into and the doors would lock behind you, preventing you from moving forward until everything was dead. For an FPS, this doesn't equate to fun gameplay if everything you're fighting are just impersonal bullet sponges. It's not challenging, it's just a chore.

That's really what sealed the deal for me.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's a huge deal breaker for me.
Last edited by Sande; 04-21-2017 at 06:43 AM.
wtd2009
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(04-21-2017, 06:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by LordOfChaos

lol I love this gif

I really enjoyed this game, it's one of my more preferred shooters on ps3. not as neatly packaged and paced as BioShock but I, too, enjoyed Columbia more than rapture.
Last edited by wtd2009; 04-21-2017 at 06:44 AM.
ThatOneGrunt
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(04-21-2017, 06:54 AM)
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I've always found it so strange that people hated the story of this game and claim to quit without ever finishing it. I thought the ending was profound and the set pieces and events leading up to it were incredibly imaginative and well designed. The beach, the penny arcade, the museum and the baptismal opening I thought were all incredible. Freaking love the Barbershop Beach Boys treatment. They created an insanely, engrossing atmosphere with that game that I adore every time I play it.
CecilRousso
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(04-21-2017, 07:08 AM)
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Beat this game, but found it to be a letdown.

It had great enviroments, and tried to do something different with the story, sure.

But:
It didn't have level design that stod out.
It didn't have encounter design that stood, but rather managed to be very repetitive, despite being 10h long.
It didn't have weapon design that stood out.
Heavy hitters were a letdown, and missed potential.
It repeated the worst boss several times.

It's not an awful game, but it gave me a "is this is all?" feeling, when playing it.
ResidentDante
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(04-21-2017, 07:18 AM)
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I found it disappointing. Story was unnecessary bloated and the Elizabeth part of the gameplay was basically just her making three different portals of hooks, cover or ammo. The ending too was complete nonsense.
Sande
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(04-21-2017, 07:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by schopaia

For me it's the rare game where the main game is diminished by the DLC, which felt unnecessary and hamstrung by using the same leveling system of the main game (the leveling system made sense for a 15 hr game, but not for a 2 hr game).

Not only that, but the second DLC tried to ruin Bioshock 1 too. Did they really need to retroactively make Fontaine and Suchong fumbling idiots when trying to coast on Rapture nostalgia?
gfxtwin
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(04-21-2017, 07:34 AM)
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I gotta respect the game's ambition and how both it and Bioshock 1 almost serve as warnings for the times we're in now, but the story falls apart when you try to analyze it outside of allegorical sci-fi. TBH I think a lot of the problems were out of the developers hands and if they shipped the exact game they wanted to make it would've been better, and I'll take Infinite over most first person shooters. Not over Bioshock 1 and 2 though, which both have the amazing setting and also gameplay that is more involved and rewards creative thinking more than Infinite's straightforward shooting + plasmids/vigors + on-rails skylines. Not that the skylines weren't fun, but I missed the more sandbox approach of previous games (toying around with hacking, the feeling that the environment was an ecosystem that you could play around with and not just a shooting gallery, etc) and was hoping it would be expanded on with Infinite - not simplified.

When a game completes a story arch with a trilogy and the main director leaves (Gears of War, God of War, Halo, etc) I usually never end up wanting more sequels, but how cool would it be to have a game set in Rapture or Columbia that was actually open world? Where you could travel to Rapture's skyscrapers in the distant depths in real time, or could soar across skylines from building to building in Columbia. All while the core gameplay is mostly the same (but with more depth) and with a story that captures the spirit of the originals. If 2K make a sequel I hope they go in that direction.
Last edited by gfxtwin; 04-21-2017 at 10:33 AM.
Bioshocker
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(04-21-2017, 07:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Drewton


So four years later and I still love this game, it ranks up there with Half-Life 2. It’s worth the cost of the Collection alone for me. But I think I do need some convincing to get into the Rapture games.

I agree. I loved BioShock but thought the combat was kind of dull. In Infinite they got this right, or at least better, with the skyrails as a cool feature in combat and transport. I know a lot of people keep throwing shit at it, but for me BioShock Infinite is still a unique experience.

When playing the slightly better looking version on The BioShock Collection I remember why I loved this game so much. Luckily, that feeling is the same for me today as it was in 2013. Which is not something I can say about a lot of games (The Last of Us being one of the few too).
Jinroh
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(04-21-2017, 08:03 AM)
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I still have to force myself to finish it. Every time I get back to it I get a feeling of deja vu all over again and know I will spend half my time clicking to pick up coins and stuff.
killatopak
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(04-21-2017, 08:13 AM)
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Thr game is only hated because it failed to deliver it's promises in the trailer.

As someone who hadn't watched the trailet before playing it, it blew my mind.

I'd love to play it again for the first time though I'f still rank Bioshock over infinite as I love rapture more.
CecilRousso
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(04-21-2017, 08:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by killatopak

Thr game is only hated because it failed to deliver it's promises in the trailer.

It might be the reason for it being actually hated, but it's not the sole reason for people not liking it. There are plenty of aspects of the game that can be criticized, that have nothing to do with hype.
Patrick Bateman
(04-21-2017, 11:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by SpaceWolf

For me, this game was a textbook example of why a convoluted story didn't automatically equal a good story.

Originally Posted by Mandius

A boring mess.

Originally Posted by Greatest Ever

One of the worst AAA experiences I've ever played, if not the worst. A mess in nearly every facet.

Originally Posted by Kevtones

Agreed. It's overproduced and the story is garbage.

Goddamn at this hyperbole negativity..
Sande
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(04-21-2017, 11:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by killatopak

Thr game is only hated because it failed to deliver it's promises in the trailer.

As someone who hadn't watched the trailet before playing it, it blew my mind.

They could have included everything in the trailers and I wouldn't like the game any more than I do now.

I'd say it's hated because it has Bioshock in its name. It's a decent shooter in its own right, but it's just not a Bioshock game. The core of the gameplay loop was dropped completely in favor of linear combat arenas.

It's also hated because it's so highly rated. No one would give a damn if it was reviewed as just another decent 7-8/10 shooter. But because it's this "10/10 GOTY masterpiece", of course people who don't like it are going to be more vocal (and hyperbolic) about it.
LonelyGreyWolf
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(04-21-2017, 11:33 AM)
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Oh wow, I just replayed this game and all its DLC's. Just played a little of Clash in the Clouds yesterday.

The game is absolutely incredible. I love the atmosphere and the vistas. The gameplay is really fun if you just get in there and use all the tools that are your disposal. The game certainly could have been so much more, but it is nevertheless an incredible game.
Last edited by LonelyGreyWolf; 04-21-2017 at 11:35 AM.
Soulblighter31
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(04-21-2017, 11:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by killatopak

Thr game is only hated because it failed to deliver it's promises in the trailer.

As someone who hadn't watched the trailet before playing it, it blew my mind.

I'd love to play it again for the first time though I'f still rank Bioshock over infinite as I love rapture more.


no, the game is "hated" because its some of the poorest designed FPS on the market, in literally every facet that defines an fps, weaponry, combat, enemies, AI all the way to the situations presented, pacing and player agency, which there is none. Seems to me casual gamers are easily seduced with pretty graphics and a story rather than a well produced game to actually play, which most people dont even know what actually makes it good
SomTervo
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(04-21-2017, 11:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Drewton

Also, Commstock being Booker. That was maybe the best twist in games since Revan, even if Booker should have been able to recognize himself.

...

I’m also going back to this after four years later and still not having played BioShock

If you were that impressed with Bioshock Infinite's flawed narrative, Bioshock (1) is going to blow you away
SpaceWolf
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(04-21-2017, 11:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Goddamn at this hyperbole negativity..

Criticizing the story for this game as being convoluted is hyperbole?

What?
Patrick Bateman
(04-21-2017, 11:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by SpaceWolf

Criticizing the story for this game as being convoluted is hyperbole?

What?

When the game received raving reviews and critics praised the story?
SpaceWolf
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(04-21-2017, 12:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

When the game received raving reviews and critics praised the story?

So because I personally dislike a story that happened to have been critically praised when it first came out, that automatically makes my opinion that the game wasn't actually very good hyperbole, even though I stressed it was my personal opinion?
Last edited by SpaceWolf; 04-21-2017 at 12:06 PM.
AgeEighty
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(04-21-2017, 12:05 PM)
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I enjoyed it, and thought most of it worked well. It had its flaws, and it wasn't as good as BioShock, but the backlash is way overblown, and the story is not as "convoluted" as people think if you're actually paying attention to it.
barneystuta83
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(04-21-2017, 12:09 PM)
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I picked this up used for £2.50 at a local CEX.

I was more LTTP than RTTP having never played the game. I loved the original Bioshock, those E3 trailers and the demo were some of the best things I'd ever seen and experienced at the time. The story was exceptional.

The sequel built on the mechanics of the first and was a better 'game'. The story was not quiet as strong though, although far from bad.

Infinite came with a lot of pressure and expectation. The fact it has it's own Wikipedia page on the 'Development of Bioshock Infinite' tells a story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Develo...Shock_Infinite

What Bioshock Infinite was is one thing. It was a good game, a very good one to be fair. It had problems and maybe did not live up to expectations. The story was interesting, although it felt like they had to push things further, which weakened the impact.

For many, the reason why I think it becomes so divisive, is because what could have been. It had so much potential to become a GOAT.
SoundLad
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(04-21-2017, 12:12 PM)
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It was probably one of my favourite games of that year. I really don't get the hate for it.

The story is also something that stuck with me for a long time, even now.

From a gameplay perspective it's definitely not perfect, or as mindblowing as the first Bioshock but the presentation, story and characters in Infinite were awesome imo.
Sande
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(04-21-2017, 12:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by AgeEighty

the backlash is way overblown

The backlash is only a reaction to the initial praise, which was also way overblown.

It's like a Newton's 3rd law for opinions.
KeyBladerXIII
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(04-21-2017, 12:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Redd

Songbird was a lot of wasted potential imo.

I still don't understand what it was supposed to be, even with the DLC.
Vanadium
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(04-21-2017, 12:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by SpaceWolf

For me, this game was a textbook example of why a convoluted story didn't automatically equal a good story.

Yeah, it was basically an episode of LOST. BI was a decent shooter, but also one that didn't really reach any higher than the first Bioshock for me. Where does Elizabeth get all those health packs? I think Dishonored (or probably Dishonored 2) was a better version of what this game really wanted to be.
Regginator
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(04-21-2017, 12:37 PM)
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I liked the story. Sure, it felt a bit of a mess at times, but I remember my first time to be very exciting. Subsequent runs make the story less and less, but it's not bad. However, the thing I disliked the most about Infinite is the gameplay. Whereas the first two BioShock games felt like the enemy placements made sense, and thus the combat felt much more logical. It's a mix of having just two weapons at a time, and the fact that there are waves and waves and waves and waves of enemies without any particular reason.
GusZamboni
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(04-21-2017, 12:42 PM)
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i still love it, love the characters and story, its really overly complicated, but i like it
QuantumSquid
(04-21-2017, 12:57 PM)
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From a gameplay and story perspective, Infinite is poorly designed. That's why I dislike it.

Did they even play the game to realize weapon upgrades make no sense when you have to pick up new guns constantly? Sorry you upgraded your favorite pistol a ton, because you'll never see it again.
wipeout364
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(04-21-2017, 12:58 PM)
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I loved all three games. Infinite does have an convoluted story which I don't think in the end does it any favors. I think the big problem with infinite is the gunplay feels kind of flat and the powers you get don't feel as good as they should. I feel like bioshock 2 elevated the combat then infinite dragged it back down. The fighting does often feel like killrooms as opposed to logical placement of enemies which works fine in serious Sam but feels dated here. When the core mechanic of a game doesn't deliver it's a problem and that is probably the biggest issue as the rest of the game although great isn't great enough to overcome this shortcoming.
I still really like the game but as a FPS it feels old.
WITHE1982
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(04-21-2017, 01:07 PM)
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Wow such divisive opinions.

I remember at launch the universal praise the game received made me a bit dubious. However after playing I fell definitely into the "absolutely love it" camp, and remain there to this day.

In fact I pre-ordered the Bioshock Collection and the first thing I did was a complete play-through of Infinite. I've not even touched 1 or 2 yet (I will get round to them eventually).

I remember at the time that few other games had such an emotional impact on me. I played this just before The Last Of Us and, due in no small part to having a daughter myself, the two games hit home pretty hard.

Saying that I fully understand some of the hate the game now gets. Fans of the original Bioshock tend to dislike it due to the drastic change in style, and if the story doesn't grip you then what you're left with some rather lacklustre gameplay/level design. I do however disagree with some who call it "the worst game/story they've ever played". Unless of course they've only played 4-5 games in their lives, then I guess it may not actually be hyperbole.
Last edited by WITHE1982; 04-21-2017 at 01:50 PM.
ChoppedandScrewed
Junior Member
(04-21-2017, 01:18 PM)
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The art and atmosphere is some of the best I've ever seen. The gameplay, however, is fairly boring for the most part.

I played Bioshock 1 a few years later and thought it was vastly superior. But for some reason, it also made me appreciate Infinite more.
bosseye
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(04-21-2017, 01:39 PM)
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I have Infinite in the Remaster to play at some stage, and the DLC. I never finished Infinite on 360 or PC I got very bored, but I'm willing to give it another shot.

I find it quite hard to articulate how compelling I find Rapture as an environment, it just grabs me on so many levels. The sunshine city in the clouds left me utterly cold. Infinite also retained a number of mechanics from Bioshock that simply didn't fit, like scavenging in bins for cakes and Vigours that tonally made the whole thing a bit of a mess.
ubiblu
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(04-21-2017, 01:41 PM)
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Still my favourite FPS of all-time. I love the art style, the story, the characters, the gameplay...everything. Sounds like i'm in the minority, which is just mind boggling.
Zakalwe
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(04-21-2017, 01:42 PM)
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I enjoyed it. Story and gameplay. Not enough exploration for a Bioscjock game, but it was a fun FPS for the most part.

Originally Posted by Greatest Ever

One of the worst AAA experiences I've ever played, if not the worst. A mess in nearly every facet.

Wow.
TroicaBlur
Junior Member
(04-21-2017, 01:45 PM)
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IDK I am yet to play a shittier game.
formated4tv
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(04-21-2017, 01:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by TroicaBlur

IDK I am yet to play a shittier game.

If Bioshock Infinite is the worst game you've ever played, you're a lucky person.

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