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jamwater
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 08:51 PM)
With it's adaptive refresh feature the Scorpio will be the best place to play Destiny 2 - or any game for that matter.
Vashetti
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by jamwater

With it's adaptive refresh feature the Scorpio will be the best place to play Destiny 2 or any game for that matter.

Doesn't matter when it's capped at 30fps.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:53 PM)
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Damn, quite the beast.
mcrommert
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hoje0308

Less than 10% does not equal 5%

Edit: To be clear, I'm not buying the MS marketing spiel about D3D12, nor do I think that Scorpio is likely capable of running Destiny 2 at 60fps.

Lol
dogen
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by iMax

Could they theoretically use GPU compute to overcome this (at cost of course)?

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think anyone here can even answer that, unless maybe they work at bungie.

It depends on what things are keeping them from reaching 60 fps (and if you want a locked 60 then you need 65-70+), and whether those things can even be moved to the GPU.


Destiny had quite low input latency for a 30 fps game anyway iirc. I don't think it's that devastating.
OdysseusVA
I would recommend betting against me.
(05-19-2017, 09:02 PM)
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Some people are just being willfully ignorant
ROUGE_BLOCK
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:02 PM)
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Any chance Scorpio version will allow uncapped framerate?
pieface
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:02 PM)
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If Halo 5 multiplayer can run at 60fps on xbone there's no reason Destiny 4v4 can't.
Innolis
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:04 PM)
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I can't shake this feeling that, while what they say certainly makes sense, it's more of a "we cannot make it 60 with the tools we have" rather than "the Pro can't handle it".
Abilidebob
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:04 PM)

Originally Posted by jamwater

With it's adaptive refresh feature the Scorpio will be the best place to play Destiny 2 - or any game for that matter.

It's so great that Microsoft invented and has the exclusive technology of adaptive refresh rate, no one else can run a game at variable(up to 30) fps.
Tecnniqe
Would die a thousand deaths just for one gun
(05-19-2017, 09:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Innolis

I can't shake this feeling that, while what they say certainly makes sense, it's more of a "we cannot make it 60 with the tools we have" rather than "the Pro can't handle it".

Whynotboth.gif
JareBear
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by dogen



Destiny had quite low input latency for a 30 fps game anyway iirc. I don't think it's that devastating.

This gets lost a little. 30fps with no dips, proper frame pacing, and rock solid input latency will equal a perfectly smooth console experience
Vashetti
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by pieface

If Halo 5 multiplayer can run at 60fps on xbone there's no reason Destiny 4v4 can't.

What are engine differences?

Halo 5's engine is GPU-bound, hence why it has dynamic resolution to maintain 60fps.

As stated in OP's vid, Destiny's engine is CPU-bound.
Boke1879
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by ROUGE_BLOCK

Any chance Scorpio version will allow uncapped framerate?

I highly doubt it. Only because the One S will be capped at 30 frames as well. They've said console will be 30fps.

And while the number will be small if they did allow 60fps for Scorpio users. You're giving them an unfair advantage in PVP.


Also to be fair. Majority of people buying these games don't give a two damns about 30 or 60 frames per second. People just want to buy it for whatever system their friends are playing on and have fun.
GameAddict411
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by darkwing

then Scorpio would be the only hope for a 60fps console version

The Scorpio will probably use the same Jaguar cores. I wouldn't expect 60 fps from it if I were you.
Sub Boss
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:09 PM)
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The Magic of GPGPU 🎆
dreamfall
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(05-19-2017, 09:09 PM)
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Did we really expect a console focused shooter in such a massive world to have a 60fps framerate? I mean it would be nice, but I can't think of a single open world title on any console that is capable of this.

As a PC gamer, you start to understand limits. Even with these half step iterations of consoles, it feels like a heavy stretch.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
(05-19-2017, 09:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Risk Breaker

I mean, BF1 runs at 55-60 on PS4P with 64 players and just as many physics, not to mention dynamic destruction. Wut.

Digital Foundry has demonstrated that BF1 drops to the 30s on the PS4 Pro. I'm not sure what the performance is after the patches but the new DLC maps are even more demanding than the originals.
Greecian-
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:17 PM)
If it's locked at 30 fps and 4K, I won't even complain.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by jamwater

With it's adaptive refresh feature the Scorpio will be the best place to play Destiny 2 - or any game for that matter.

Yeah sure, as long as you have a TV with a variable refresh rate, which, 100% of people don't have.

Note, TV.
cakely
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by JareBear

So if a game targets 60fps on both consoles, but one fluctuates between 40-55 and the other is locked 60, you don't feel there's an advantage? And if you do, then it essentially squashes "games have to run the same on both" theory

Planetside 2 is another great example

The policy is: In competitive multiplayer games, the PS4 and PS4 Pro versions must target the same framerate, which can be either 30fps or 60fps.

Yes, if the PS4 Pro hits its target framerate more consistently than the PS4, that's an advantage for the PS4 Pro, but it doesn't violate the policy above.

A page ago I thought that that Battleborn broke this policy, but it turns out that it doesn't.

I'm not endorsing this policy, but I do believe that it does exist, and so far all released games seem to conform to it.

I also seem to be incapable of not talking about it.
7DollarHagane
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:21 PM)
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Simply not a priority. 30fps is good enough and they will sell almost zero less copies with it.
Undead Hero
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 09:24 PM)
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As much as I want 60 fps, I care a lot more about better FOV options on PSPro/Scorpio. Bungie plz
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(05-19-2017, 09:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Undead Hero

As much as I want 60 fps, I care a lot more about better FOV options on PSPro/Scorpio. Bungie plz

Same

I know we aren't getting 60 now but I really want an FoV slider.
Tagyhag
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(05-19-2017, 09:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Undead Hero

As much as I want 60 fps, I care a lot more about better FOV options on PSPro/Scorpio. Bungie plz

That's a good question, I wonder if they'll allow that.

That FOV was EXTREMELY low in the stream. It looked like even less than Destiny 1.
see5harp
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:26 PM)

Originally Posted by dreamfall

Did we really expect a console focused shooter in such a massive world to have a 60fps framerate? I mean it would be nice, but I can't think of a single open world title on any console that is capable of this.

As a PC gamer, you start to understand limits. Even with these half step iterations of consoles, it feels like a heavy stretch.

"MASSIVE WORLD"
DirgeExtinction
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:32 PM)
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Isn't the resolution mainly dependent on the GPU while the frame rate is mainly dependent on the CPU? If so, that would make sense why Scorpio won't be 60fps. Both consoles could do 4k(checkerboard for Pro and native for Scorpio).
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
lapdance transform pants
(05-19-2017, 09:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Interfectum

They do but it probably wouldn't matter anyway... Scorpio plays Xbox One games at native 4K. The Xbox One version of Destiny 2 is 30fps, so that's what Scorpio will be regardless.

Originally Posted by Yautja_Warrior

Yep, the Pro CPU is 2.1GHz and Scorpio is only 2.3GHz, so only a little bit faster. Not enough of a difference to double the framerate.

Originally Posted by Raide

People will say it's just another Jaguar, MS will say it's a heavily modified Jaguar that won't have the same CPU bound issues.

Scorpio could do 60 without an issue, even if it was a variable framerate. Not sure how much Bungie have modified this engine but they are still keeping to baseline PS4/XB1 capabilities.

Not sure MS should be happy about Devs throttling the system because reasons.

I guess we find out about E3!

Originally Posted by Xando

It clocks higher but still has the same shitty jaguar cpu IIRC(?).

Thanks for the responses! Seems like mid-gen refresh has hit bottleneck, or do we blame Bungie for "lazy development"?
AEREC
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Hamburglar

they're using the cpu as an excuse. there is no reason this game should be 30fps considering it doesn't look any better than halo 5 and the pvp is 4v4.

Sure it might be possible for 4v4 crucible to run at 60fps but not the regular campaign with all the AI, Physics and stuff.

But why would they have the 4v4 MP mode run at a different framerate than the rest of the game?

D1's 30fps felt great anyways.
Zarth
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 09:48 PM)

Originally Posted by cakely

The policy is: In competitive multiplayer games, the PS4 and PS4 Pro versions must target the same framerate, which can be either 30fps or 60fps.

Yes, if the PS4 Pro hits its target framerate more consistently than the PS4, that's an advantage for the PS4 Pro, but it doesn't violate the policy above.

A page ago I thought that that Battleborn broke this policy, but it turns out that it doesn't.

I'm not endorsing this policy, but I do believe that it does exist, and so far all released games seem to conform to it.

I also seem to be incapable of not talking about it.

There is actually nothing explicitly in Sony's guidelines that restrict this.

They just say that if you have a 30 FPS title you must provide one or both of the following NEO modes:
1080P+ 30FPS
1080P+ 30+ FPS

The reality of the scenario is that most games that are running at 30 FPS on the base HW just don't get enough of a CPU kick to run at 60 FPS. It is not terribly hard to hit 60 FPS on the base hardware if you are GPU bound and don't mind dynamic resolution. If you do use Dynamic Res to hit 60FPS in base mode by the above case if you don't have a Neo mode that maintains 1080P/60 the whole time (due to downres) you would also need to provide a mode that is 1080P+ 30 locked as an option.

Going the other way is explicitly forbidden though( 60 FPS Base Game, no 60 FPS Neo Mode)
Last edited by Zarth; 05-19-2017 at 09:52 PM.
TsuWave
(05-19-2017, 09:52 PM)
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need ps5 to arrive tomorrow. i want to play this at 60fps on console
LowSignal
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by RoboPlato

Same

I know we aren't getting 60 now but I really want an FoV slider.

On titanfall 2 there is a FOV slider with a warning about performance issues if changed, I would be happy with a similar setup
dogen
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by DirgeExtinction

Isn't the resolution mainly dependent on the GPU while the frame rate is mainly dependent on the CPU? If so, that would make sense why Scorpio won't be 60fps. Both consoles could do 4k(checkerboard for Pro and native for Scorpio).

Frame rate depends on both.
Last edited by dogen; 05-19-2017 at 10:32 PM.
thumb
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by dreamfall

Did we really expect a console focused shooter in such a massive world to have a 60fps framerate?

Yes, because many of us have played Warframe.
geordiemp
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:00 PM)

Originally Posted by Prologue

Its not 5% better.

10 % then 2.1 to 2.3, its hardly going to change dat bottleneck

Originally Posted by EvB

You missed a zero

2.10 to 2.30, its 9.52 percent better. feel better now ?

Both are still shit Ghz, IPC is pathetic, but to be fair they are tiny teeny weeny little cute things.
Last edited by geordiemp; 05-19-2017 at 10:03 PM.
EvB
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(05-19-2017, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vashetti

What are engine differences?

Halo 5's engine is GPU-bound, hence why it has dynamic resolution to maintain 60fps.

As stated in OP's vid, Destiny's engine is CPU-bound.

Aren't they both forks from the same original source?
gamz
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hoje0308

Less than 10% does not equal 5%

Edit: To be clear, I'm not buying the MS marketing spiel about D3D12, nor do I think that Scorpio is likely capable of running Destiny 2 at 60fps.

LOL
NoctisVsStar
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by TsuWave

need ps5 to arrive tomorrow. i want to play this at 60fps on console

Next gen won't make these issues disappear anyway. Devs have different priorities at times.
Yautja_Warrior
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(05-19-2017, 10:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew

Thanks for the responses! Seems like mid-gen refresh has hit bottleneck, or do we blame Bungie for "lazy development"?

I wouldn't say they are lazy, it's just a design choice. Developers just aren't obsessed with higher framerates like some gamers are, that's why a lot of games still run at 30fps. They could tone down resolution and graphical effects, reduced enemy count and make the AI less smart to hit 60fps but that would make the game a lot worse in other areas then.

One good thing now though is that console hardware is starting to get much more powerful (4.2 Tflop and 6 Tflop GPU's) and CPU speed is slowly getting faster again (2.1GHz and 2.3GHz) so next gen should be much more capable and we will hopefully get more 60fps games.
grfunkulus
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 10:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by gamz

LOL

You can LOL all you want but until we get our hands on the pc version, no one actually knows.
WhiskerFrisker
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(05-19-2017, 10:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by gamz

LOL

Does Scorpio run a different version of Xbox games?
Behlel
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(05-19-2017, 10:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by WhiskerFrisker

Does Scorpio run a different version of Xbox games?

It'll be 60fps checkboard.
Randam
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:13 PM)
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Why not 1080p/60fps?

Is it even real 4k?
geordiemp
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:13 PM)

Originally Posted by Behlel

It'll be 60fps checkboard.

On an I5 or I7 maybe, or a Ryzen one day...

Jaguar ? hahahahahahahahahaha
KageMaru
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:13 PM)
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Destiny 2 being CPU bound on consoles isn't surprising at all.

Has it been confirmed to be running at native 4k on the Pro?

Originally Posted by EvB

Aren't they both forks from the same original source?

Yes been taken into different directions by two games now. Both Bungie and 343 have different targets and goals for their games.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Randam

Why not 1080p/60fps?

Is it even real 4k?

If the framerate is limited by the CPU, lowering the resolution won't really do much to improve it.
Kayant
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(05-19-2017, 10:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by EvB

Aren't they both forks from the same original source?

Even if they were do you really think they are still comparable or close to the same after all this time since they stop developing halo and 343i took over?
Vashetti
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(05-19-2017, 10:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Behlel

It'll be 60fps checkboard.

Originally Posted by Randam

Why not 1080p/60fps?

*bangs head on wall*
Randam
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by KageMaru




If the framerate is limited by the CPU, lowering the resolution won't really do much to improve it.

Ah. OK. Thanks.


Originally Posted by Vashetti

*bangs head on wall*

?
NoctisVsStar
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vashetti

*bangs head on wall*

geordiemp
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:18 PM)

Originally Posted by Vashetti

*bangs head on wall*

But why is that 2D platformer 60 FPS, why is tetris 4K and yet...

Just give up lol

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