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Musky_Cheese
Junior Member
(05-20-2017, 12:23 AM)
Very surprised to see so many thinking an upclocked jaguar is all that's needed to go from 30 to 60 fps

It is disappointing that the pro/Scorpio has the jaguar. But once the information was known, no one should be surprised
jett
D-Member
(05-20-2017, 12:24 AM)
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I just remembered that Destiny on PS3 was essentially the same experience as on the newer consoles. Although uglier, it had the same amount of enemies on screen, same amount of players, same "physics" and whatnot. All while almost always running at 30fps. I'm looking at the D2 Strike and I don't really see any differences with D1 in terms of something that could be causing additional CPU load to be honest, in relation to what Luke Smith said. Then again I never understood why Destiny 1 ran at only 30fps on PS4, parity aside, but it's not like there was crossplay in the game.

Ah whatever, if they can't make their engine get to 60fps on these machines, I guess they just can't.
Blackpanther25
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by PLASTICA-MAN

4K on PS4 PRO? I hope it is native.

HDR as well? I hope so.
la_briola
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Maintenance

It won't, same CPU but with a Microsoft PR spin.

This.
Maintenance
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:31 AM)
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I get the PS Pro using jaguar, it looks like a rushed job. The Scorpio doesn't look like that, and it is disappointing to have the good ol' Jaguar CPU with some mods. I do understand that it probably wasn't their fault though, as I recall AMD saying that it wouldn't be possible for a brand new custom CPU this year (citation needed).
Night.Ninja
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Maintenance

It won't, same CPU but with a Microsoft PR spin.

But you know that's not true

I never understand why people come on to neogaf and lie to them selves and each other for a console war
thelastword
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Boke1879

Yup. That'st he reason. It's why I'm sure Scorpio will be 30 fps as well. Personally because I think bungie want parity with all consoles.

People are pretending there's no point of reference here. Even Destiny 1 was all about parity across XB1 and PS4. 1080p 30fps on both XB1 and PS4..? A console with a 40% better GPU can only muster 30fps at the same resolution as an XB1, with no improved visuals on the PS4 side...Yeah, these guys are all about parity you bet ya...

I don't think Sony wants to separate Vanilla against PRO players and neither will MS, where the gap between their console is even larger due to how weak the XB1 was...Yes, I'm not seeing anything in Destiny 2 that's going to wreck CPU's. This is all about the multiplayer clause not separating the PS Plus and Live paying userbase. Surely you can't give PRO and Scorpio players an advantage on a closed platform. For PC it makes sense since it's open and nobody controls the type of hardware you have, but for consoles I can see why it makes sense (even though I'd like my 60fps)....

Still, all those people finding this as ammo to beat up on jaguar and the consoles...I'll just have to SMH...
Somnia
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:38 AM)
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BTW Mike Ybarra just tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/XboxQwik/status/865708380026847233

Developers are free to choose how they use the power of Project Scorpio for games. We have no requirements limiting framerate or fidelity.

JareBear
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Somnia

BTW Mike Ybarra just tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/XboxQwik/status/865708380026847233

This is how it should be. MS learning from Sonys mistakes again
Maintenance
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Night.Ninja

But you know that's not true

I never understand why people come on to neogaf and lie to them selves and each other for a console war

Unless I see Destiny 2 running at 60fps on the Scorpio then I won't believe any Microsoft PR spin.
ViciousDS
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by JareBear

This is how it should be. MS learning from Sonys mistakes again

yes.........I can see this rolling well with the xbox crowd, I can see singleplayer being uncapped for the higher hardware......but multiplayer should be 60fps for both tiers.


Not 30fps for one and 60fps for others for competitive
JareBear
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by thelastword

People are pretending there's no point of reference here. Even Destiny 1 was all about parity across XB1 and PS4. 1080p 30fps on both XB1 and PS4..? A console with a 40% better GPU can only muster 30fps at the same resolution as an XB1, with no improved visuals on the PS4 side...Yeah, these guys are all about parity you bet ya...

I don't think Sony wants to separate Vanilla against PRO players and neither will MS, where the gap between their console is even larger due to how weak the XB1 was...Yes, I'm not seeing anything in Destiny 2 that's going to wreck CPU's. This is all about the multiplayer clause not separating the PS Plus and Live paying userbase. Surely you can't give PRO and Scorpio players an advantage on a closed platform. For PC it makes sense since it's open and nobody controls the type of hardware you have, but for consoles I can see why it makes sense (even though I'd like my 60fps)....

Still, all those people finding this as ammo to beat up on jaguar and the consoles...I'll just have to SMH...

SMH right back at you.

You act like the Jaguar CPU in these consoles is unjustifiably criticized. Thats horse poop. The CPU in these machines is beyond awful and beyond outdated
Somnia
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:43 AM)
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https://twitter.com/XboxQwik/status/865714152118992896

He just confirmed no FPS parity requirement in multiplayer also to make it clear.
Maintenance
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by Somnia

BTW Mike Ybarra just tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/XboxQwik/status/865708380026847233

So much for XB1 owners feeling first class. I guess they got the United Airlines treatment.
ViciousDS
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Maintenance

So much for XB1 owners feeling first class. I guess they got the United Airlines treatment.

no shit..........oh....you 35 million don't want a disadvantage, maybe you should buy the newest system every 3 years to not get fucked.
Musky_Cheese
Junior Member
(05-20-2017, 12:46 AM)

Originally Posted by Maintenance

So much for XB1 owners feeling first class. I guess they got the United Airlines treatment.

As a launch customer, I felt that way. Now one s owners can join the party
GTSweet
Junior Member
(05-20-2017, 12:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by ViciousDS

no shit..........oh....you 35 million don't want a disadvantage, maybe you should buy the newest system every 3 years to not get fucked.

Welcome to the real world... of phones and computers and technology in general. Why is this so hard to comprehend the market is moving towards this?
JareBear
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Somnia

https://twitter.com/XboxQwik/status/865714152118992896

He just confirmed no FPS parity requirement in multiplayer also to make it clear.

Again, just how it should be.

Premium product, premium results.

I love my Pro but man MS is kicking Sony's ass with their handling of Scorpio vs Sony's handling of Pro.
Night.Ninja
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Maintenance

Unless I see Destiny 2 running at 60fps on the Scorpio then I won't believe any Microsoft PR spin.

What pr spin? If destiny doesn't run at 60fps on Scorpio that's down to bungie not ms
ViciousDS
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by GTSweet

Welcome to the real world... of phones and computers and technology in general. Why is this so hard to comprehend the market is moving towards this?


Phones.....and computers = a game console?



damn, news to me


thought the PC I built was an open system........and phones really? You compared a general consumer device that casuals play games on to a game console? Phones again are pretty open devices in terms of OS and usage. A game console is completely closed.
Kaako
Felium Defensor
(05-20-2017, 12:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Somnia

BTW Mike Ybarra just tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/XboxQwik/status/865708380026847233

Uhhh what about a minimum performance requirement for Scorpio software?
If it's the wild west, then it'll be amazing and in some cases downright sad. I'm sure there's gotta be some sort of rigorous QA in place though.
GTSweet
Junior Member
(05-20-2017, 12:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by ViciousDS

Phones.....and computers.....=game console



damn news to me


thought the PC I built was a computer, an open system........and phones really. You compared a general consumer device that casuals play games on to a game console? Phones again are pretty open devices in terms of OS and usage. A game console is completely closed.

Glad to share the news!

"Closed" systems that now iterate every few years to keep up with rapidly changing technology and should be allowed to take advantage of it.
JareBear
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by ViciousDS

Phones.....and computers = a game console?



damn, news to me


thought the PC I built was an open system........and phones really? You compared a general consumer device that casuals play games on to a game console? Phones again are pretty open devices in terms of OS and usage. A game console is completely closed.

Enjoy playing games on your XBone or buy a Scorpio and enjoy playing games on it instead. The choice is yours.
ViciousDS
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by GTSweet

Glad to share the news!

"Closed" systems that now iterate every few years to keep up with rapidly changing technology and should be allowed to take advantage of it.

that doesn't mean fucking over the consumer.


These are enthusiast machines........minimal in sales compared to the original and still based of the exact same architecture.
Somnia
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kaako

Uhhh what about a minimum performance requirement for Scorpio software?
If it's the wild west, then it'll be amazing and in some cases downright sad. I'm sure there's gotta be some sort of rigorous QA in place though.

I'm sure there's something like "game must perform at least equal to xb1 version" but sounds like devs can use the power anyway they want including multiplayer.
Musky_Cheese
Junior Member
(05-20-2017, 12:53 AM)

Originally Posted by JareBear

Again, just how it should be.

Premium product, premium results.

I love my Pro but man MS is kicking Sony's ass with their handling of Scorpio vs Sony's handling of Pro.

What? Sorry the Pro is out in the wild. What exactly has MS handled well in comparison? You own the pro. You don't even know the retail name or price of the Scorpio.
GTSweet
Junior Member
(05-20-2017, 12:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by ViciousDS

that doesn't mean fucking over the consumer.


These are enthusiast machines........minimal in sales compared to the original and still based of the exact same architecture.

Isn't it fucking over the consumer who buys the Pro or Scorpio by holding them back? The games will run great at 30fps 1080p on PS4 and XB1, why shouldn't they be allowed to push the limits on other hardware? Casual consumers won't know the difference.
Last edited by GTSweet; 05-20-2017 at 12:54 AM. Reason: *software to hardware
JareBear
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by ViciousDS

that doesn't mean fucking over the consumer.


These are enthusiast machines........minimal in sales compared to the original and still based of the exact same architecture.

Nobody is getting fucked over. Are people with iPhone 7's fucked over when the iPhone 7 S Plus comes out?

That's a victim mentality. You still have an XBone
GinoFelino
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:57 AM)
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There's still a massive amount​ of lesser-known technical requirements devs need to adhere to for Scorpio.

It's not like devs have this infinite freedom with this hardware.

Besides, not like Microsoft isn't approaching third party studios with bags of money to get games to show off Scorpio a little more. They can choose how to use the power, as long as their choice ticks all of Microsoft's marketing boxes.
JareBear
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Somnia

BTW Mike Ybarra just tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/XboxQwik/status/865708380026847233

By the way, this should probably have it's own thread
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Musky_Cheese

What? Sorry the Pro is out in the wild. What exactly has MS handled well in comparison? You own the pro. You don't even know the retail name or price of the Scorpio.

Has your head been in the sand? You don't need to know the name to know the policies lol
GinoFelino
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by JareBear

By the way, this should probably have it's own thread

They've been saying this for ages
Kaako
Felium Defensor
(05-20-2017, 12:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Somnia

I'm sure there's something like "game must perform at least equal to xb1 version" but sounds like devs can use the power anyway they want including multiplayer.

That quote makes it sound like the wild west. Do whatever you want with this system and you have no fps limit lol what? So essentially according to that quote, I can develop a super solid 15fps game with shit textures and they'll be fine with it? I know they'll ask to keep a minimum parity with other consoles at least, therefore they do have limits and minimum requirements.
It's really not a well thought out quote imo.
Boke1879
Member
(05-20-2017, 12:59 AM)
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He doesn't state that the Scorpio version will run at 60 fps. He just said devs can do what they want.

Bungie has states consoles will be 30 fps.
JareBear
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Banjo-Kazooie

Has your head been in the sand? You don't need to know the name to know the policies lol

Yeah. We know more about what the Scorpio aims to do than we do with the Pro. There is still confusion about how the Pro is supposed to be enhancing new games for 1080p displays. MS came right out and has knocked it out of the park in these regards
Wedzi
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:00 AM)
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Hasn't Microsoft stated the opposite already? That there won't be any frame rate differences between Scorpio and Xbox One games?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc.../#62e7242c5bf2

"No, there wouldn't be a frame rate difference, because typically the frame rate is determined by the game developer and what's right for the gameplay mechanic," Loftis says. "You don't necessarily want to create two different mechanics for two different configurations."

It's a pretty similar statement to what Mike said but she just went ahead and said what we already know. Microsoft has been pretty on point about Scorpio. Don't read too much into that tweet.
Last edited by Wedzi; 05-20-2017 at 01:05 AM.
Musky_Cheese
Junior Member
(05-20-2017, 01:01 AM)

Originally Posted by Banjo-Kazooie

Has your head been in the sand? You don't need to know the name to know the policies lol

Lol. There a lot we don't know.
JareBear
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Boke1879

He doesn't state that the Scorpio version will run at 60 fps. He just said devs can do what they want.

Bungie has states consoles will be 30 fps.

They also stated they can't talk about Scorpio version yet.

His tweet is important for more than just D2 as well. Means a lot moving forward as far as what to expect from Scorpio
The_Dama
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:01 AM)
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Safe us Scorpio
Boke1879
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by JareBear

This is how it should be. MS learning from Sonys mistakes again

What are they learning? This has been their line from day one. It's just PR. It still doesn't state Scorpio will be 60 fps. Just that devs can do what they want. We've known this. It also doesn't mean Destiny 2 can run at 60 fps on Scorpio.

Again Bungie said consoles are 30 fps. Unless Scorpio is just some special case.



That said. People are really getting hung up on frames again just like at the start of the gen.

No one is really going to give a damn about this in the long run.
Maintenance
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by Wedzi

Hasn't Microsoft stated the opposite already? That there won't be any frame rate differences between Scorpio and Xbox One games?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc.../#62e7242c5bf2

I tried to find that earlier because I remembered they said that once. Thank you for the source.
OdysseusVA
I would recommend betting against me.
(05-20-2017, 01:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Somnia

https://twitter.com/XboxQwik/status/865714152118992896

He just confirmed no FPS parity requirement in multiplayer also to make it clear.

Interesting
JareBear
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Boke1879

What are they learning? This has been their line from day one. It's just PR. It still doesn't state Scorpio will be 60 fps. Just that devs can do what they want. We've known this. It also doesn't mean Destiny 2 can run at 60 fps on Scorpio.

Again Bungie said consoles are 30 fps. Unless Scorpio is just some special case.



That said. People are really getting hung up on frames again just like at the start of the gen.

No one is really going to give a damn about this in the long run.

Bungie said they can't talk about the Scorpio version yet.

The tweet means there is no ridiculous forced parity that Sony imposes on the Pro. That's huge news.

Got it?
ViciousDS
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by cvelte

It irks me that there are essentially three different D2 PS4 experiences. Console hardware should not be changing this often and I'm likely going the PC route because of this.

why do you think I built one instead of getting a Scorpio this year?


Sure initial investment is more.....but honestly if they keep going this current line, you would actually end up spending less on the PC than either console in the long run. Games are insanely cheaper for the most part, my damn USB headset hasn't ceased to exist for over 10 years (I'm looking at you microsoft and your launch XB1 bullshit, even you Sony.) You could have bought an xbox 360 controller before this generation started.....guess what you didn't need to buy any new accessories unless they physically broke. Also my entire catalog of games works in some form or another, not Sony's bullshit PS2 remaster crap. Microsoft thankfully was kind enough to not recharge people for past stuff they owned on the 360. Also where the hell is the OG xbox emulation and the PS1/PS2 emulation? It shouldn't be that hard to do on this current hardware.....well OG xbox maybe due to documentation possibly.



and of course I have a switch hiding in the corner lol
Musky_Cheese
Junior Member
(05-20-2017, 01:04 AM)

Originally Posted by Maintenance

I tried to find that earlier because I remembered they said that once. Thank you for the source.

Can someone tell me which statement is true before I stick my head back in the sand
mayl3
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:04 AM)
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Help us Xbox one Scorpio you are our only hope.
Boke1879
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by JareBear

Bungie said they can't talk about the Scorpio version yet.

The tweet means there is no ridiculous forced parity that Sony imposes on the Pro. That's huge news.

Got it?

Scorpio version will be 4k. Again. Didn't MS say there would be no difference in frames and now this.

Also the parity only extends to MP and I totally get that decision.
JareBear
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Musky_Cheese

Can someone tell me which statement is true before I stick my head back in the sand

The tweet from a few minutes ago seems to directly and definitively contradict the Forbes article.
Boke1879
Member
(05-20-2017, 01:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by JareBear

The tweet from a few minutes ago seems to directly and definitively contradict the Forbes article.

More like MS contradicting themselves.
Musky_Cheese
Junior Member
(05-20-2017, 01:07 AM)

Originally Posted by JareBear

The tweet from a few minutes ago seems to directly and definitively contradict the Forbes article.

Sweet. 2013 Microsoft is back

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