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wRATH2x
Banned
(02-26-2010, 07:47 PM)
cis gendered?
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
(02-26-2010, 07:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wrath2X

cis gendered?

Not transgendered. Its pronounced sisgendered.. not CIS:Gendered btw :lol (not laughing at you but of thinking of David Caruso saying it)

Originally Posted by Sklorenz

All in all, it was great to see how much support she had and how she still had tons of dating opportunities. I'd also like to use this story to say that even in southern states like Oklahoma, especially in the big cities here, the annoying and sweeping general statements all over GAF aren't true for a lot of the people here.

Nice story. i hope you connect with your friend again.
Last edited by water_wendi; 02-26-2010 at 07:59 PM.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
(02-26-2010, 07:55 PM)
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When I was a kid I asked for a barbie doll for Christmas.

Okay that doesnt count, but I'm throwing my support in. I consider myself open minded, but the few short pages have already enlightened me more than anything has in my life. Its wonderful to see this place can support a thread like this.
mernst23
Member
(02-26-2010, 07:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Android18a

Plus, many TGs don't like men.

And many gay guys wouldn't want to look anything like a woman because they don't find that appealing.

Even within the TG scope, there's such a broad spectrum of straight, bi, gay and all sorts. But to equate a gay man and a TG as the same thing is totally incorrect. They are two unrelated states.



A gay man feels like a man. A tg woman feels like... a woman. Or a woman "trapped" in a mans body.

I know that I in no way consider myself a man. A gay person would.

Basically it's not Sexual Preference, but Sexual Identity. Its not them, its you, so to speak.

Interesting, I always assumed the MtF TG for the most part sought out gay or at least bi guys.
mollipen
(02-26-2010, 08:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Charron

I'm 22 and I already feel like I'm waiting too long.

Let me first just say that I hate you for making a statement like that. *laughs* I'm... ugh... about to turn 35, and I can't express the regret that I feel in having taken so long to finally force myself to deal with all of this. I'd give anything to be 22 and in the position that I am now!

I am lucky, however, in the fact that I've always had more of a "cute" face, never at all been very manly physically, and I'm constantly being mistaken for a female when talking on the phone. So if it ends up that I go forward (something that I want to decide soon, but my situation is very complicated), I have the setback of starting later than others but the benefit of being pretty lucky in at least having a decent starting point.


Originally Posted by iamtheb

EDIT: And in the future, I'll most definitely just ask them. Thanks a lot!

I've encountered a few trans folks who think questions about their situation are offensive (which bugs me), but for the most part, my advice would be this: if any of you encounter somebody who is trans, and you have things you don't understand or aren't sure of, ask! If your questions are genuine and not being asked in the hopes of offending the person, I think most trans folks would be eager to answer any questions you might have.

We're living in a situation where a lot of the people around us still don't understand who we are and what we're going through - helping to change that is a chance we'd love to have! I'd rather somebody ask me what they might think are stupid questions than have them fumble around awkwardly in dealing with me.

Once you see somebody who is trans as a regular human being with their own set of struggles, and not as some strange unknown creature that comes from a world you know little about, that's when both of you are better for the experience.


Originally Posted by mernst23

Interesting, I always assumed the MtF TG for the most part sought out gay or at least bi guys.

It's a very easy mistake to make, but the truth of the matter is this: being transgender has nothing to do with your sexuality. Nothing. Being trans has as much to do with who you are attracted to as being black, or Jewish, or a redhead, or anything like that. It's a very common misconception, but really, they're totally different topics.

Edit: I think I mis-read what you were saying, but I think my statement is still a good one to make.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
(02-26-2010, 08:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by mernst23

Interesting, I always assumed the MtF TG for the most part sought out gay or at least bi guys.

ive been with a couple guys that identify as gay and although it was fun, ultimately i think it was a disappointment for both sides. Its the same kind of thing where i meet up with a straight guy and he wants to treat me as a sexual curiosity rather than as a woman. After a couple blunders ive come to make what i want very clear as to avoid any confusion.

Originally Posted by shidoshi

Let me first just say that I hate you for making a statement like that. *laughs* I'm... ugh... about to turn 35, and I can't express the regret that I feel in having taken so long to finally force myself to deal with all of this. I'd give anything to be 22 and in the position that I am now!

i am also over 30 so i understand that feeling very well :lol Sometimes i find it difficult to not be envious of other more fortunate girls lol. The thing i always have to keep in mind is that it could have been so much worse.. i could have put this off until i was 60 or 80 :lol
Last edited by water_wendi; 02-26-2010 at 08:08 PM.
Whoompthereitis
Stop the criticism of
child rapists
THEOCRACY NOW
(02-26-2010, 08:08 PM)
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best of luck Shidoshi, from someone who remembers reading your writing in Gamefan way back in the day.
GaimeGuy
Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
(02-26-2010, 08:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by bjork

This is fascinating to me, but so many people IRL keep it hidden. I think it'd be cool to sit down with someone TG and just pick their brain for a bit.

Kind of the same thoughts here. It's kept even more on the down low than homosexuality in society. To be quite honest I'm not even sure if there's a TG community here in the Twin Cities.

Fully supportive of trans-gaf though. Good luck in all of your trials.
Koshiba
Member
(02-26-2010, 08:10 PM)
Being trans must be really difficult.. I've only briefly hung around and talked with someone going through things before. I try to be the type of person that doesn't focus so much on people's gender though anyway. I remember that story posted a while back of the guy that freaked out on his gf when he found out about her past as a man though, I found that pretty sad.. I guess the best thing you can do is be open about it to your partner since if someone really cares for you, they should accept you entirely I think. :) I really wouldn't care too much if I was dating someone and found out they were transgendered though, I'd do my best to be accepting and supportive of them.
mernst23
Member
(02-26-2010, 08:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by shidoshi

It's a very easy mistake to make, but the truth of the matter is this: being transgender has nothing to do with your sexuality. Nothing. Being trans has as much to do with who you are attracted to as being black, or Jewish, or a redhead, or anything like that. It's a very common misconception, but really, they're totally different topics.

Edit: I think I mis-read what you were saying, but I think my statement is still a good one to make.

If anything it almost feels like a double reverse. I think the assumption I've made is that someone who identifies as the opposite sex does so partially feeling that they are attracted to their original sex. For example, born-male who identifies female would feel pushed in that direction a little bit more because their female mentality would tell them to be attracted to men.
Hop
That girl in the bunny hat
(02-26-2010, 08:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by shidoshi

Let me first just say that I hate you for making a statement like that. *laughs* I'm... ugh... about to turn 35, and I can't express the regret that I feel in having taken so long to finally force myself to deal with all of this. I'd give anything to be 22 and in the position that I am now!

I am lucky, however, in the fact that I've always had more of a "cute" face, never at all been very manly physically, and I'm constantly being mistaken for a female when talking on the phone. So if it ends up that I go forward (something that I want to decide soon, but my situation is very complicated), I have the setback of starting later than others but the benefit of being pretty lucky in at least having a decent starting point.

Long as I can hate you for having a lucky biology. :P
mollipen
(02-26-2010, 08:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Whoompthereitis

best of luck Shidoshi, from someone who remembers reading your writing in Gamefan way back in the day.

First: thank you.

I think the day I walked into the GF offices, at least a couple of the staffers pegged me as gay. *laughs* I've been kind of wondering when to tell a couple of the people that I used to be close to at the mag, and I'm very curious to see how many "I knew it"s I'll get. (Which I've gotten from at least a couple ex-girlfriends.) I also always got a kick how, during the ECM-run era of GameFan, it seemed like any time anything pink/girly/etc. was mentioned in the mag, a joke involving my name would not be far behind.

It's really interesting how, even though people can see all of the signs and make comments, jokes, and whatnot, they never put that final piece in place. One of my best friends had for years and years teased me about my girly qualities, always using female characters in video games, etc., so when I told him, I was SURE that he was going to be one of the least-surprised people on the planet. And yet, while it wasn't a huge shock to him, his reaction was not at all one of a total lack of shock - I was completely surprised that he was at all surprised.


Originally Posted by border

What sort of pornography do you like? It seems to me that most transgendered and lesbian porn is made for straight males, and probably might not appeal that much to actual TGs and lesbians.

For me, the porn topic is strange, because I don't so much like porn of any type really. However, I do have a decently-sized collection of images, pretty much consisting of naked women on a Playboy-level of "pornography". To me, that was always my porn collection, and I loved looking at the beauty of naked women of all types, sizes, and races.

What I never really fully considered, of course, was that my interest in looking at naked women was as much about looking at their bodies from an "I want to be them" angle as much as it was from an "I want to be with them" angle, if not more.

For me, the problem with porn is that, well... I really wish they had much more story and production to them. *laughs* I think your comment is right - most porn seems made for straight men, and what straight men want to see is as quick of a route as possible to gettin' the fuckin' on.
lexi
Banned
(02-26-2010, 08:25 PM)
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One of the unifying traits of being trans is lamenting not doing it sooner. Relax! It's not a race, I know someone who transitioned in their mid 40s and is living an amazing life now as a married woman. Not that it even matters but she is amazingly gorgeous and looks 15-20 years younger as a woman. :P

Oh, hell, I know someone who transitioned in their late 50s and is the spitting image of Helen Mirren now, beauty comes within, don't despair or give up purely because of your age!
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
(02-26-2010, 08:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Koshiba

Being trans must be really difficult.. I've only briefly hung around and talked with someone going through things before. I try to be the type of person that doesn't focus so much on people's gender though anyway. I remember that story posted a while back of the guy that freaked out on his gf when he found out about her past as a man though, I found that pretty sad.. I guess the best thing you can do is be open about it to your partner since if someone really cares for you, they should accept you entirely I think. :) I really wouldn't care too much if I was dating someone and found out they were transgendered though, I'd do my best to be accepting and supportive of them.

Its a comfort to know that there are understanding people like yourself. The thing is, i dont think i could ever enter a serious relationship and not tell them about my previous life. Not only would it be a huge betrayal of trust.. it would eat me up inside because i would constantly know i was lying to them by omission. i think i can also understand very well why people do keep it a secret though. The thought of losing someone theyve come to love would be devastating considering things are already complicated enough. id like to think id fully disclose once i got to that point but i wont know until im in that position.
Whoompthereitis
Stop the criticism of
child rapists
THEOCRACY NOW
(02-26-2010, 08:29 PM)
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ECM-run era of GameFan, it seemed like any time anything pink/girly/etc. was mentioned in the mag, a joke involving my name would not be far behind.

Fuck, I remember that, now that you mention it!

I was a reader during the ECM era.
wRATH2x
Banned
(02-26-2010, 08:31 PM)
Lexi is that you in your avatar?
mollipen
(02-26-2010, 08:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by mernst23

Not TG but supportive of the cause and had a question. I understand the value of HRT, but in the case of alteration surgery, does sex lose it's pleasure? Obviously MtF and FtM are very different types of surgery, but it was always my understanding that the surgery will essentially destroy the nerve endings necessary to experience an orgasm.

It doesn't have to. I think a lot of it depends on who you go to and the skill of their techniques, but I've read how, if you go to somebody who is really known for doing what they do, you can still retain at least a decent level of sensation afterward. I have a trans friend who said a friend of hers called her up after she had her first orgasm with her new parts, because she said it was the most amazing orgasm she had had in her life.

Not that "orgasm = sensation" exactly, but the point is, the idea that the joy of sex is lost after getting the sex change is not a fact set in stone.


Originally Posted by Wrath2X

Do all of you girls want to get the operation or are you perfectly happy being pre-op?

If I could be rid of my male bits tomorrow, I would without ever looking back. Even when I was little I never wanted them, they mean nothing to me, and I wouldn't shed a tear for them if they were gone.


Originally Posted by Number 2

Its a comfort to know that there are understanding people like yourself. The thing is, i dont think i could ever enter a serious relationship and not tell them about my previous life.

I think this is a huge issue, and the truth is, I see both sides of the argument.

Me, personally, I'd have to tell them. If I'm afraid of what my significant other would think of me if they knew my past, that's a person I'm not sure I should be with. Plus, as you said, there's the whole issue of trust, and I wouldn't want to live my life feeling like I was living a lie.

BUT... I can absolutely see the other side of the coin. For me, my goal isn't to be "transgender" - it is to be "female", and that's all there is to it. My absolute dream would be to get to a point in life where you could see me in the supermarket and not even remember me afterward because I seem so average to you. I think that some who get to that point don't think they need to talk about their past because, to them, they were never really their original sex; their body had a defect, they've corrected that defect, and now they're going on with their lives.

Some see it as the whole "trap" thing - the willing and purposeful mis-representation of who you are in order to trick somebody - but that's not what it's about. It's about getting away from that person you were forced to be and being the person you feel you are. Terrible analogy probably, but think about a person who was a slave, and then was freed. They don't want to live the rest of their life saying "I used to be this person's servant, but now I am a free man", they just want to be that free man and not look back.

For some, I think that saying "I used to be a man/woman, but now I am a woman/man" makes them feel like they're still living a life of pretend, or that they're still chained to their old selves. They aren't trying to trick anybody, they just want to live their lives as their real selves, and as they never once considered themselves that previous sex, the person they are now is the real them and that's all that matters.
Last edited by mollipen; 02-26-2010 at 08:43 PM.
lexi
Banned
(02-26-2010, 08:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wrath2X

Lexi is that you in your avatar?

Yes.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
(02-26-2010, 08:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by lexi

Yes.

Wasnt sure if it was you or not.. you look great lexi :)
wRATH2x
Banned
(02-26-2010, 08:43 PM)

Originally Posted by lexi

Yes.

You're pretty cute.

Anyway, back to the sudden attraction to males. You said you fantasized about them but never become sexually attracted to them till after HRT. Could you elaborate please?
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
(02-26-2010, 08:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by lexi

Yes.

WOULD.
mollipen
(02-26-2010, 08:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wrath2X

Anyway, back to the sudden attraction to males. You said you fantasized about them but never become sexually attracted to them till after HRT. Could you elaborate please?

Quote I've heard (and this might not be true) is that it's close to a 50% chance that your sexual preference will change after undergoing HRT. While sexual preference and gender are not connected, changing one can help free up any hesitations for the other. If you're a male, and feel like you're actually female, the idea of being with a man might not at all be appealing because the idea of man+man sex just doesn't do it for you. So, before transitioning, you don't really give men a second though in that way.

Then, though, you start transitioning, you're on hormones (which can change your feelings, ways of thinking, etc.), you're living like a woman, you're allowing yourself to look, act, and feel like a woman, and suddenly you might realize that men are the best thing since sliced bread. That attraction may have always been there, but it wasn't able to fully surface until you dealt with the other issues that were getting in the way of your true feelings.
Mumei
Member
(02-26-2010, 08:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zaptruder

Does anyone know what might be some of the biological causes behind transgenderism?

I mean, males and females are derived from the XY and XX chromosome respectively... but what's the biological basis for identifying so strongly with your 'non-biological' gender, when the X or the Y aren't present?

Is it a hormonal thing?

I've got a nice book called "The Sexual Spectrum, by Olive Skene Johnson, that you should purchase - it covers biological causes behind transgenderism. I think the simplest place to start is with the fact that your genetic sex, physical sex, and sexual identity don't always match. In cissexual people, they do, but that's not the case for everyone; it's possible to have male chromosomes, but have partial androgen insensitivity syndrome which causes you to develop to look much like a female with just casual observation, for instance.

This bit was interesting, I thought:

Originally Posted by The Sexual Spectrum

BRAINS ARE NOT SEXUALLY NEUTRAL

A large body of animal research, and some human research, has now indicated that early sex hormones from the testicles and ovaries create permanently male and female brains. Exposure to androgen (male hormones) in the womb leads to a permanently male brain, which has male anatomy and produces typically male behaviours. For females, it's ovarian estrogen that's responsible for feminizing the brain.

Once a human female's brain has become responsive to estrogen, shortly after birth, it continues to be so throughout life, causing transient changes in her brain and behaviour. If you're a woman reading this, you've probably been aware of mood changes that occur across your own menstrual cycle. New studies have shown that it's not only mood that changes; changes also occur in the chemistry and even anatomy of women's brains at different points in the cycle. As the hormones rise and fall across the menstrual cycle, the ebb and flow can actually alter the neural structure of a woman's brain.

These changes are only temporary, of course. But when sex hormones act on the developing brain early in life, they can cause permanent structural and biochemical changes, organizing the brain slightly differently in each sex. Boys and girls end up with brains wired to handle certain information differently, and to have different cognitive and emotional styles. Though their brains are also affected by learning and experience, those effects are believed to be limited by the biological constraints laid down in early brain development (more about this in Chapters 5, 6, and 7).

Overall, men's and women's brains are a lot more alike than they are different. Even under a microscope, the architecture of the male and female brain is very similar. And when differences do exist, they are average differences, telling nothing about any one individual. Having said all that, it's still true that there are observable differences between human male and female brains, just as there are in other animal brains. These differences are evident in the structure of the brain, in the way the brain is organized to process information, and in the different ways men and women sometimes think and solve problems.

She goes on to talk about differences - men's brains are slightly larger and are surrounded by more cerebrospinal fluid; women's brains are more densely packed with gray matter; women generally show greater competence in tests of speech and language, whereas men generally do better on difficult spatial tests; men lose brain cells about three times as fast as women between the late teens and late 40s, and the fact that there are structures in the brain that, on average, were significantly larger or smaller in one sex as compared to the other. In addition, she also talks about brain lateralization - men's brains tend to be more specialized, with one side of the brain being specialized for certain tasks, whereas women's brains tend to share handling of verbal and spatial tasks. These differences in brain lateralization can be seen as early as three months.

Originally Posted by The Sexual Spectrum

But how do these sex differences occur? You probably won't be surprised to know that prenatal sex hormones set the stage for them. Researchers at the University of Waterloo demonstrated that very nicely. They measured the amount of testosterone in second trimester amniotic fluid (which had been obtained and frozen when expectant mothers had amniocentesis during pregnancy). When the children born to these mothers were 10 years old, the researchers tested them to see how their prenatal hormone level had influenced their hand preference and the way their brains' two hemispheres were specialized. They found that girls who'd been exposed to higher levels of testosterone in the womb than other girls were more strongly right-handed and had stronger left-hemisphere ability for speech, a pattern that's often found in males. In boys, those who'd been exposed to higher testosterone levels in the womb had stronger right-brain specialization for emotion, a pattern more often found in females. For both girls and boys, then, the higher level of testosterone in the womb, the more specialized each hemisphere became.

[...]

But the more impressive evidence for the influence of sex hormones on cognitive abilities comes from Dutch studies of transsexuals who were given hormones to help them change into the opposite sex. Stephanie Van Goozen and her colleagues reported that female-to-male transsexuals, after being treated with testosterone, shifted from the female pattern of cognitive abilities to the male one - that is, their verbal fluency declined while their spatial ability improved. Exposing them to male hormone had made their brains as well as bodies masculine. Just the opposite occurred in male-to-female transsexuals: after being treated with estrogen and anti-androgens, they shifted from the male pattern of cognitive performance to the female one - that is, their verbal skill improved and their spatial ability declnied. Depriving them of male hormones and giving them female hormones had feminized not only their bodies, but their brains as well. These results provide some of the best evidence yet for a causal effect of sex hormones on brain functions. They also show that our brains remain susceptible to sex hormone effects even in adulthood.

And as far as the dressing up thing goes - there are different types of transgenderism (it's a very broad term that happens to include a lot of cross-gender behaviors); there's the "I always feel like a woman, even when I'm dressing as a man. I've always identified more strongly as a woman and have never really felt as though I were male, even as a child" transgenderism, then there's the "I feel like a woman when I'm crossdressing, but not in my day-to-day life," and there's the "I crossdress for my own entertainment / job / insert-other-personal-reasons-here." The transgender people in this topic are, I'm assuming, probably all of the first kind.

In the broadest definition of "transgender," I think that the crossdressing behavior of a gay man would qualify, but it's... not the same thing. It's on one end of the continuum of cross gender behavior (e.g. temporarily adopting an exaggerated form of a particular type of femininity), whereas being transsexual is on another end (permanently adopting the gender presentation of the gender opposite what your apparent physical sex is). In a sex and sociology class I took a few years ago, it was mentioned that for some crossdressing men, the crossdressing began as a private thing, then became more public (e.g. they started going out dressed as women in public in attempt to pass as female), and eventually developed to the point that they felt as though they were female even when they weren't wearing the clothing (whereas before, they had only felt female while cross-dressing.

It's possible that for some male-to-female transsexuals, that phase could be a way of sort of weaning themselves into the idea that they are, in fact, transsexual (not that the crossdressing causes it, but that it sort of serves as a stepping stone, maybe similar to the way that bisexuality serves as a temporary identity for some gay men (And this isn't to say that bisexuality isn't "real," because it is - but there are some gay men who initial identify as bisexual before later identifying as gay, and I think it might serve a similar purpose here).
wRATH2x
Banned
(02-26-2010, 08:48 PM)

Originally Posted by EatChildren

WOULD.

definitely!
Whoompthereitis
Stop the criticism of
child rapists
THEOCRACY NOW
(02-26-2010, 08:49 PM)
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Quote I've heard (and this might not be true) is that it's close to a 50% chance that your sexual preference will change after undergoing HRT. While sexual preference and gender are not connected, changing one can help free up any hesitations for the other. If you're a male, and feel like you're actually female, the idea of being with a man might not at all be appealing because the idea of man+man sex just doesn't do it for you. So, before transitioning, you don't really give men a second though in that way.

Then, though, you start transitioning, you're on hormones (which can change your feelings, ways of thinking, etc.), you're living like a woman, you're allowing yourself to look, act, and feel like a woman, and suddenly you might realize that men are the best thing since sliced bread. That attraction may have always been there, but it wasn't able to fully surface until you dealt with the other issues that were getting in the way of your true feelings.

That is fucking fascinating, for real.
wRATH2x
Banned
(02-26-2010, 08:50 PM)

Originally Posted by shidoshi

Quote I've heard (and this might not be true) is that it's close to a 50% chance that your sexual preference will change after undergoing HRT. While sexual preference and gender are not connected, changing one can help free up any hesitations for the other. If you're a male, and feel like you're actually female, the idea of being with a man might not at all be appealing because the idea of man+man sex just doesn't do it for you. So, before transitioning, you don't really give men a second though in that way.

Then, though, you start transitioning, you're on hormones (which can change your feelings, ways of thinking, etc.), you're living like a woman, you're allowing yourself to look, act, and feel like a woman, and suddenly you might realize that men are the best thing since sliced bread. That attraction may have always been there, but it wasn't able to fully surface until you dealt with the other issues that were getting in the way of your true feelings.

Thats interesting!
lexi
Banned
(02-26-2010, 09:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by shidoshi

Quote I've heard (and this might not be true) is that it's close to a 50% chance that your sexual preference will change after undergoing HRT. While sexual preference and gender are not connected, changing one can help free up any hesitations for the other. If you're a male, and feel like you're actually female, the idea of being with a man might not at all be appealing because the idea of man+man sex just doesn't do it for you. So, before transitioning, you don't really give men a second though in that way.

Then, though, you start transitioning, you're on hormones (which can change your feelings, ways of thinking, etc.), you're living like a woman, you're allowing yourself to look, act, and feel like a woman, and suddenly you might realize that men are the best thing since sliced bread. That attraction may have always been there, but it wasn't able to fully surface until you dealt with the other issues that were getting in the way of your true feelings.

This was definitely the case for me. You've put it extremely well, too. <3

My avatar is symbolic more than anything else, that's a photo from ages ago, before I started HRT and everything, and it was the exact moment I knew who I was and what I was going to do about it.
Last edited by lexi; 02-26-2010 at 09:04 PM.
Confused101
Member
(02-26-2010, 09:13 PM)
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This is one of the most informative threads that I've seen on here in a long time. Amazing stuff.

Just wanted to show my support! :D
Whoompthereitis
Stop the criticism of
child rapists
THEOCRACY NOW
(02-26-2010, 09:25 PM)
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Shidoshi, were you inspired by this thread to switch your avatar just now?
excelforward
Member
(02-26-2010, 09:26 PM)
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I've had a few experiences with the TG community over the past several years. The real opening to the TG community was via an ex of mine, who was a large advocate for the trans community. His ex was a FTM named Logan, and thanks to his experiences and insight I began to understand the trans population a bit better.

About a year after meeting him, I started to go through my own gender evaluation. I knew I was physically male, but I really had no idea how I felt about my own gender. Eventually I came to the conclusion that I am indeed sexually and gendered male. That being said, the overwhelming confusion that can take place during those times is immense, and I applaud any of the trans community.

That being said, I also realized a few things about myself. That, namely, I am attracted to guys more from a gender standpoint. There was a particular FTM that I was partly attracted to physically, but as I came to get to know him better I realized I was attracted to him based on his gender rather than his sex. It's an odd concept, but it's given me the insight to realize that if I ever had the chance to date a FTM (pre or post-op), I would love to.

All in all, I lastly find it interesting that people have more bias against the trans community than the gay community. With the GLB community, they can claim religious views as their stronghold for the asinine views that the populace holds. With the trans community, I don't think it's so much about religious views rather than the fact that many people never go through the gender confusion and thus never consider their own gender/sex. I just don't see any reason for hatred towards the GLBT community at all, but that's just me.
mollipen
(02-26-2010, 09:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Whoompthereitis

Shidoshi, were you inspired by this thread to switch your avatar just now?

Yeah, I was saying on the first page that I can't take anything I'm saying seriously in this thread when I see that face next to it every time. *laughs*

So I'm going back to my old avatar, and I am especially pleased now that I figured out how to randomize between Misono's two moods.
Last edited by mollipen; 02-26-2010 at 09:47 PM.
Whoompthereitis
Stop the criticism of
child rapists
THEOCRACY NOW
(02-26-2010, 09:38 PM)
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Yeah, I was saying on the first page that I can't take anything I'm saying seriously in this thread when I see that face next to it every time. *laughs*

So I'm going back to my old avatar, and I am especially pleased now that I figured out how to swap between Misono's two moods.


What was your other Avatar? I've never understood what it was signifying, or referring to, or whatever....
mollipen
(02-26-2010, 09:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Whoompthereitis

What was your other Avatar? I've never understood what it was signifying, or referring to, or whatever....

One of the many great facial expressions Mary gives in the "casting" video that was used to help sell the idea that became the game Heavy Rain.
Exhumed
Member
(02-26-2010, 09:52 PM)
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This topic fascinates me. The psycological and biological reasoning is simply fascinating.

I have immense respect for those of you who were able to overcome social adversity and become who you are today. Even if you are in transition or still questioning, i feel its an amazing feat of the soul to go through this kind of thing. I praise each and everyone of you for standing up for who you are, not what people think you should be.

Just to prove to myself just how ignorant people are to TG I asked a friend a question. "Do you think my curiosity into the transgender (meaning born biologically male/female but feeling the opposite) world is odd?" The first thing she said was "No lol not at all! Do you think you might be gay? Or bi?" It really bothered me that she asked that as a first question. Trangender has nothing to do with either and I hate that things are always stereotyped as such....

I wonder why the subject of "self" is such a misconstrued area. Everything has to be categorized. Why isn't it possible simply to be oneself. I mean really people are people. We all have our own battles. It doesn't matter what those battles entail but no one is any different in the end. Just because our choices, personality, morals, sexual identity, sexual preference, etc. differ, it doesn't make anyone less human. Too many people are too narrow minded to see the bigger picture. Often a subset of their own insecurity/issues.

Anyhow, enough rambling. Firmly believe people have the right to be themselves, regardless of what that may entail. Amazing people are amazing people.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
(02-26-2010, 10:03 PM)
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Maybe ive missed it so far but are there any ftm transguys here?

On the topic of ftm.. i find it interesting that i really appreciate how handsome they are because i kinda understand the work that has gone into making them who theyve become. i can say the same thing with transwomen and beauty but for women in general (genetic or otherwise), beauty is practically a fulltime job.. so its not exactly the same kind of thing :lol i hope this makes sense.. ive tried rewriting it to be clearer but right now the words arent flowing as well as id like heh
Alfarif
This picture? uhh I can explain really!
(02-26-2010, 10:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Android18a

Yeah. I turn 27 soon, and it's annoying to think of the wasted years. Don't do what I did.

As long as you start, I say.
aoi tsuki
(02-26-2010, 10:10 PM)
Heteroflexible male here dropping in to show support and ask a question.

i don't know how to put this without potentially offending, but does anyone think that say, a few hundred years in the future, severe case of gender dysphoria as they're often treated now with procedures like FFS and SRS, will be seen as barbaric? Do you think it'll be treated (or treated away) chemically? Or would that be akin to the APA and WHO at one point believing homosexuality was a mental disorder and could possibly be treated? Having read stories and watched vlogs of people who've had these surgeries and transitioned, i can't help but wonder if there's a better solution than surgery, but our understanding just isn't there yet.
Alfarif
This picture? uhh I can explain really!
(02-26-2010, 10:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by MagniHarvald

I'm one of those people, and it's just that, a joke, not something done in disgust. Tell me if you guys think it's offensive, and I'll stop. I'm one of those people who laughs about (and not at) everything, so it's not intended to hurt.

I'm not trans, but I've always found it disgusting that people use the site as a joke. It's really not funny at all.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
(02-26-2010, 10:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by aoi tsuki

Heteroflexible male here dropping in to show support and ask a question.

i don't know how to put this without potentially offending, but does anyone think that say, a few hundred years in the future, severe case of gender dysphoria as they're often treated now with procedures like FFS and SRS, will be seen as barbaric? Do you think it'll be treated (or treated away) chemically? Or would that be akin to the APA and WHO at one point believing homosexuality was a mental disorder and could possibly be treated? Having read stories and watched vlogs of people who've had these surgeries and transitioned, i can't help but wonder if there's a better solution than surgery, but our understanding just isn't there yet.

i find nothing offensive with this question. Even looking back at basic medical treatment for common ailments 100 years ago the modern person of today would call that kind of "medicine" barbaric, so im sure as technology and science gets better people will think the same with the surgeries of today. It makes me happy to know that when that kind of future arrives where changing a body will be much more elegant, the people with GID will be able to live easier because of it.
Alfarif
This picture? uhh I can explain really!
(02-26-2010, 10:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by JessicaPadkin

Great topic!

It's interesting reading these comments because, even though I'm a cis woman, at lot of what you're saying does resonate with me to an extent.

Personally, I struggled with my gender identity growing up, but it was pretty much the opposite of what you all experienced! I was lucky to have a mother who strongly encouraged individuality, and in many ways I really don't fit gender roles at all. I play video games, often ones that are violent or competitive. I don't particularly want to be stereotypically pretty. I don't want to have children or get married. I have a strong drive for personal success. I'm not into men that are (considered to be) very masculine... and so on.

Everything I was being taught was telling me that I was a bad woman, and that I must be masculine. But... I AM a woman. I've never had any reason to doubt that... I would fantasise that the male characters in kid's films were women because I wanted to identify with a brave, smart woman for once, all my sexual fantasies were from my point of view as a woman, and well... I like my vulva. >_> It's taken a lot of time to accept that my gender and my personality are independent, and to be able to ignore all of the pressure and the criticism that suggests that I should act in a way that doesn't feel natural to me.

I don't know what point I'm trying to make here, but eh. I guess it's that traditionally gender is thought to be defined by your body/personality, but in reality I think it's something even more personal than that.

I applaud you, and I think I'm the same way, but male. It took a long time for me to really feel like this body was "right" for me. I was the guy who liked looking at clothes, who wanted to watch a romantic comedy over an action movie, who liked reading about the relationships between boys and girls over the violence in my fantasy novels, and who didn't care at all for sports. I identified with women more often than men, and my female friends greatly outnumbered my male friends but a huge margin. I thought something was wrong with me. I even, at one time, completely hated men and thought they (and I) were the scum of the planet. That was a fun two years.

This thread is great, because though it's about TGs, others who have gender identity issues can make a sort of self-discovery as well. Look at that... lexi, you rock! Thanks for the thread!
Shanadeus
Banned
(02-26-2010, 10:30 PM)

Originally Posted by aoi tsuki

Heteroflexible male here dropping in to show support and ask a question.

i don't know how to put this without potentially offending, but does anyone think that say, a few hundred years in the future, severe case of gender dysphoria as they're often treated now with procedures like FFS and SRS, will be seen as barbaric? Do you think it'll be treated (or treated away) chemically? Or would that be akin to the APA and WHO at one point believing homosexuality was a mental disorder and could possibly be treated? Having read stories and watched vlogs of people who've had these surgeries and transitioned, i can't help but wonder if there's a better solution than surgery, but our understanding just isn't there yet.

Probably will be a moot point as possibly germline engineering coupled with mind uploads and downloads might make the process of switching to another gender, or switch to a true herm gender, or any other possible gender, alot easier.
Last edited by Shanadeus; 02-26-2010 at 10:35 PM.
Cosmic Bus
pristine morning snow
(02-26-2010, 10:34 PM)
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The documentary Prodigal Sons may be of interest: part of the story involves the director, once the high school's star quarterback, returning to her hometown in Montana after ten years now as a woman.
Alfarif
This picture? uhh I can explain really!
(02-26-2010, 10:44 PM)
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All right, I've gotten around to finding a few of those Youtube videos I said I was looking at on page one. My wife and I have been looking for them, because we didn't favorite them and Youtube only saves the last 100 videos that you view (sucks). I don't know if lexi will want to put these in the OP, since some of them will follow these women's transitions from the beginning until now, and that could be a good primer for people who don't know and don't want to go all the way through the thread in the future. Otherwise, enjoy:

Developing a Female Voice - The video that helped me make my female voice better for my audio podcasts and audio storybooks.

TrannyGirl15 - Very, very long vlog. She goes from the moment she was made the decision up until some recent point. This includes HRT, post-op, and female feminization surgery.

IceColdBath - Another long vlog that I found. I believe this was the first I viewed. Introduction from Ashley's beginnings to sometime four months ago.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
(02-26-2010, 10:50 PM)
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Lots of great links.

There are quite a few fem voice training stuff on Youtube. One of the most striking is this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbaj4...eature=channel Shes got it nailed totally and when in the middle of the video she switches to her male voice its a very wow moment. Voice is one of the things that i really need to work on more. Imo, its probably the most important thing to me than the other stuff.. clothes, makeup, etc.
Exhumed
Member
(02-26-2010, 10:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alfarif

I applaud you, and I think I'm the same way, but male. It took a long time for me to really feel like this body was "right" for me. I was the guy who liked looking at clothes, who wanted to watch a romantic comedy over an action movie, who liked reading about the relationships between boys and girls over the violence in my fantasy novels, and who didn't care at all for sports. I identified with women more often than men, and my female friends greatly outnumbered my male friends but a huge margin. I thought something was wrong with me. I even, at one time, completely hated men and thought they (and I) were the scum of the planet. That was a fun two years.

Interesting. Maybe its just my personal belief but I don't see anything wrong with what you have described above as I know quite a few guys like this. Maybe its because I relate on some level but i see it simply as a difference in likes/dislikes.

Its a curious notion to not feeling comfortable in your own body. Is it possible to describe how you feel like you should look/feel like the opposite gender? Does this make sense?
mollipen
(02-26-2010, 11:01 PM)
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If we're linking to YouTube stuff, here's the show that basically set off me dealing with all of this. There was a show in Japan called Gakkou e Ikou (a variety show with Japanese boy band V6), and they started a segment called "Josou Paradise." Basically, male Japanese students ranging from junior high age to college age would come on, and the show's staff would see how cute they could be made up as girls.

I put the recap segment up on my YouTube account, and did a bit of subtitling. Even if you can't understand Japanese, it's still fun to watch, and I can try to find links to the full episodes if anybody is interested. The very opening of this particular video is referencing the fact that the Josou Paradise segment was invited to this huge fashion show in Tokyo (Tokyo Girls Collection), where a few of the "girls" ended up doing the whole runway thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPKjuCV7VHw
Risette
A Good Citizen
(02-26-2010, 11:22 PM)
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Well I guess I should post here as well. :D Another trans-GAF member here. Probably the youngest too 15 so I haven't transitioned yet.

I'll write a little about myself. I live in Texas, near Galveston/Houston. Born a male, and I want to transition to a female. Bisexual. (I guess? I find all genders and such attractive. Male, female, MTF/FTM, genderqueer, doesn't matter.) Only child. I was born with a birth injury, Erb's palsy, that caused my left arm to be paralyzed. (It still is if you're curious. Yeah, I play games one-handed. Not related to being trans but I'm writing about me, felt it was fine to put there :P) As a toddler/little kid I was often confused as a girl because of my curly/wavy hair I guess, and people would say "oh what a cute little girl"... stuff like that. I was never insulted by it though, because I took it as a compliment. I wanted to be a girl even at that age, but I never said it out loud or anything. My mom/dad bring up how people used to call me a girl from time to time as a joke or something, dunno... I guess they mean for me to look back be glad that it doesn't happen anymore. But I'm not glad.

In elementary school I never really fit in with the boys. (pretty much still don't but at least I can make friends with them now) Until I was 9, I didn't even have a close male friend. All of them were female before that. I also had this ponytail (which I kept until 6th grade) because it made me feel slightly girly. I also always wanted to have my ears pierced at this age, but my parents never let me. :lol Even though when they asked me why and I said "other guys do it!" (not why I wanted them obviously) they still said no. :lol

Middle school was pretty shitty. People were going through puberty and the girls only talked to other girls or good looking guys (I wasn't.) Since most of my friends were female, I was pretty lonely and overall miserable. Towards the end I started making friends with the friends of my few male friends, or guys who did the same things I did (just games pretty much.) I don't even remember much of middle school because I just want to forget it ever happened. During this time period is when I found out about GID from reading stuff on the internet. It was then I found out that me feeling like/wanting to be a girl wasn't just some weird fantasy that could never happen.

Like many other transgenders though, I didn't just go "oh that describes me perfectly, now I know why I feel like this.." I went through denial, self-hate, depression, etc. My first year of high school was improved compared to middle school I guess, but I was a mess on the inside. Before I go on, I want to say that I don't hold these views/beliefs AT ALL anymore and look back on the fact that I did at all with disgust, no matter how depressed or delusional I was. Anyways. Towards the end of my first HS year, I started reading... white supremacist/neo-nazi sites. First I just wanted to see how people could think like this with the history behind the ideals and all, then before I knew it I started believing all that shit. I was a racist and a conspiracy theory nut. Looking back, I don't know why I ever bought into that stuff. If I had to say, I would say I was trying to "hate" the trans out of myself and ignored/twisted the facts. At the time I was still depressed and I was still going through the self-hate. Also I have to say, the white supremacist/neo-nazi nonsense is like a fucking virus for anyone in a fragile mental state. Never read that shit even if you're just curious to see why those nutjobs are such nutjobs.

Thankfully before I shaved my head and bought some boots, a friend of mine "woke" me up. I don't even think he meant to, but I guess I was just going overboard with the bullshit on MSN and he asked "you don't really believe that, do you?" When he asked that.. I realized I didn't. It was all really bullshit. I only got caught into it because I felt bad about myself and thought that hating what I was (and many other groups of people, sadly) could make it go away. I knew there that I had to start accepting myself or I'd keep feeling like shit.

And I did! I started reading some trans sites, transitioning stories, seeing progress pictures, etc. I think one of the main reasons I was in denial/self-hate is because I was afraid that if I ever went through with it, I'd look like one of those "trannies" from Jerry Springer. It's a shame that I let something meant to humiliate people for ratings affect my perception of transgenders, because when I took the time to look at pictures and read the stories of actual transgenders.. I saw that many of them looked like regular women and had a normal life with a husband and all. It was all inspiring stuff.

I started coming out to my online friends, all of them were pretty accepting. I posted in the GayGAF thread for advice and met Lexi. Eventually I came out to my mom too, although I don't think she quite understood what I was telling her, and she probably doesn't remember it/take it seriously... but it was nice to tell the person closest to me, in person.

Currently I'm not planning to transition until I'm 18. I don't want to transition while still in HS for obvious reasons. Haven't came out to my dad yet either, never really connected with him and I'm just kind of afraid to tell him. Not out of fear that he'd hurt me or abuse me, but I think it might depress him or something. Particularly, I feel like he might think he failed as a father if his son wants to be a girl. Which isn't true, it's nobody's fault, but I just want to avoid that sort of thing for now I guess.

I can't really define the specifics of how I feel like a girl. I just... do. I dislike how I am/feel as a male. I guess you could put me in the "really dislikes being male but isn't extremely girly, would be happier as a female though" group. Pretty much the only stereotypically male things I like to do are playing games and reading/learning about history. Maybe technology if you consider that stereotypically male, but it's always been a gender neutral (or "for nerds of all genders" :P) type of thing in my eyes.

And I'm done for now. Long, and probably full of mistakes, but at least I type better than most 15 y/os. :lol
KibblesBits
Member
(02-26-2010, 11:22 PM)
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Oh, nice! A trans thread on gaf.
Good to see support from the members of gaf too.
Alfarif
This picture? uhh I can explain really!
(02-26-2010, 11:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wrath2X

Lexi is that you in your avatar?

I wanted to ask this question yesterday but held off. Glad you took the leap.

Lexi is very cute. Looks like a couple female friends, and even one girl I dated a long time ago.
alexthekid
Member
(02-26-2010, 11:27 PM)
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Me and my girlfriend had an argument about gender operations the other day and hopefully you can bring it to an end.

I feel so stupid asking this, but what can you actually change if you are a woman that wants to be a man? There are no way that you can get something that looks and works like a "normal" penis in todays medical world right? Normaly i would just google something that i didnt know and didnt have anyone to ask but i never google anything having to do with the human body and operations, to many bloody and strange pictures:P

I know nothing about this stuff. I have a couple of gay friends but never known an transsexual. Dont know what to say but good for you about coming to this realisation, im hoping it helps you to be happy:)

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